Letter to Jeremy Ciaramella, Lead Evangelist of the Phoenix International Christian Church.
Jeremy, I am disappointed.
I was disappointed with your “help” when you and I met with Kip McKean to discuss how Victor Gonzalez, Sr. had lied to me, abused me, stolen money from me, and threatened me.
I was disappointed because you kept your mouth shut as I was told that I was mistaken, when you had heard the full confession of my abuser. You lied to try to make me look bad and then lied to try to make others look good (ICC leaders, of course). You tricked me into meeting with you by telling me that you "loved me" (God, that sounds weirder than hell.) And then, in a final, vain and twisted attempt to try to silence my story, you used your position to separate me from my friends, all with the goal of protecting the abusers, who continue in their positions and abusing people to this day.
Showing posts with label deception. Show all posts
Showing posts with label deception. Show all posts
Apr 16, 2014
Anti-ICC YouTube Channel
There have been some new YouTube videos popping up which target the International Christian Church.
One channel, called ICC Cult Information, features short anti-cult messages about the church. Here is a one-minute video from there:
One channel, called ICC Cult Information, features short anti-cult messages about the church. Here is a one-minute video from there:
Feb 25, 2014
Outrageous Ministry Compensation
How much should ministers make? A reasonable middle-class salary? Something in line with what the members of the church earn? Maybe, like Jesus and the apostles, earn nothing or next to nothing?
Or how about, oh, say, $300,000.00 per year?
Check out the following link:
http://www.icocinvestigation.com/Documents/aces1212.pdf
It is to a copy of payment information for payments made to certain church leaders, including Steve and Lisa Johnson, in December, 1996.
It shows the Johnsons earning a combined bi-weekly base salary of $3,692.13. Now, if you multiply that out a bit, it comes to $95,995.38 per year, just base salary. After you add in parsonage (they live rent-free in church-funded housing) and other benefits outlined in that document, the compensation package comes up to $11,793.45 every two weeks, which is $25,552.48 per month or a whopping $306,369.70 per year!
This blew my mind. I suspected it was extravagant but this just seems surreal.
Or how about, oh, say, $300,000.00 per year?
Check out the following link:
http://www.icocinvestigation.com/Documents/aces1212.pdf
It is to a copy of payment information for payments made to certain church leaders, including Steve and Lisa Johnson, in December, 1996.
It shows the Johnsons earning a combined bi-weekly base salary of $3,692.13. Now, if you multiply that out a bit, it comes to $95,995.38 per year, just base salary. After you add in parsonage (they live rent-free in church-funded housing) and other benefits outlined in that document, the compensation package comes up to $11,793.45 every two weeks, which is $25,552.48 per month or a whopping $306,369.70 per year!
This blew my mind. I suspected it was extravagant but this just seems surreal.
Jan 15, 2013
La Mentira, El Robo, y La Amenaza, Parte III
(Read this in English)
(Artículo Principal) (La Parte 1) (La Parte 2) (La Parte 3)
Entonces aquel día, no tantos meses después de las mentiras, robo y amenazas descritos en las partes uno y dos de mi historia, VGSr nos pidió ir a reunirnos con él en su apartamento, que quedaba cerca de donde vivíamos.
Fuimos a verlo, y ya tenía otra pareja de casados esperando, DJ y VJ. VGSr me dijo que estaba preocupado por como estaba yo espiritualmente. (El asunto verdadero fue que tenía unas semanas que no daba mi pago semanal a la iglesia.)
(Artículo Principal) (La Parte 1) (La Parte 2) (La Parte 3)
Entonces aquel día, no tantos meses después de las mentiras, robo y amenazas descritos en las partes uno y dos de mi historia, VGSr nos pidió ir a reunirnos con él en su apartamento, que quedaba cerca de donde vivíamos.
Fuimos a verlo, y ya tenía otra pareja de casados esperando, DJ y VJ. VGSr me dijo que estaba preocupado por como estaba yo espiritualmente. (El asunto verdadero fue que tenía unas semanas que no daba mi pago semanal a la iglesia.)
La Mentira, El Robo, y La Amenaza, Parte II
(Read this in English)
(Artículo Principal) (La Parte 1) (La Parte 2) (La Parte 3)
Entonces pasaron unos años. Mis dudas de la integridad de VGSr seguían acumulando. Desde que lo conocí, seguido tenía la sensación que estaba mintiendo. Pero nunca podía cacharlo en una clara mentira. Usualmente mis dudas estaban cerca de cosas que no podía verificar tan fácilmente, y las pocas veces que le pregunté acerca de detalles se ofendía, y entonces no le presioné. Razonaba, si está mintiendo, tarde que temprano va a salir a la luz. Y si no está mintiendo, voy a estar metiendo la pata no más.
Entonces, después de pasar la misma sensación por cientas de veces, o aproximadamente cada vez que VGSr abría la boca, llegó la hora cuando pude probar de una forma definitiva si mis sospechas fueran basadas en la verdad o no....
(Artículo Principal) (La Parte 1) (La Parte 2) (La Parte 3)
Entonces pasaron unos años. Mis dudas de la integridad de VGSr seguían acumulando. Desde que lo conocí, seguido tenía la sensación que estaba mintiendo. Pero nunca podía cacharlo en una clara mentira. Usualmente mis dudas estaban cerca de cosas que no podía verificar tan fácilmente, y las pocas veces que le pregunté acerca de detalles se ofendía, y entonces no le presioné. Razonaba, si está mintiendo, tarde que temprano va a salir a la luz. Y si no está mintiendo, voy a estar metiendo la pata no más.
Entonces, después de pasar la misma sensación por cientas de veces, o aproximadamente cada vez que VGSr abría la boca, llegó la hora cuando pude probar de una forma definitiva si mis sospechas fueran basadas en la verdad o no....
Dec 10, 2012
Conclusions To Be Drawn From My Experiences In Kip McKean's Church
Money is King
Kip's church is, as far as I can tell, much more focused on money than the church in the Bible. Minister compensation, while not as exorbitant as in some denominations known for pastors in giant mansions and brand-new sports cars, is a far cry from the vow of poverty of the original church or even that of nuns in the modern Catholic church. (Here is a longer post with my observations about minister compensation in Kip's churches).
In my meetings with Kip to discuss the abuses suffered under VGSr's leadership, I got the definite and distinct feeling that the main concern on Kip's mind was how much...
Kip's church is, as far as I can tell, much more focused on money than the church in the Bible. Minister compensation, while not as exorbitant as in some denominations known for pastors in giant mansions and brand-new sports cars, is a far cry from the vow of poverty of the original church or even that of nuns in the modern Catholic church. (Here is a longer post with my observations about minister compensation in Kip's churches).
In my meetings with Kip to discuss the abuses suffered under VGSr's leadership, I got the definite and distinct feeling that the main concern on Kip's mind was how much...
Lying, Stealing, and Threats, Part III
(Intro) (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (En Español)
So that fateful day, not too many months after the lies, stealing, and threats, described in the part one and part two of my story, VGSr asked to meet with me and my wife at his apartment, which was near where I lived.
We went there and met him, and he had another married couple there waiting, DJ and VJ. VGSr told me that he was concerned about how I was doing spiritually. (The issue was that I had not given my weekly $$$ to the church for the previous couple of weeks). I told him that I was not sure if I wanted to remain a member of the church, and that I did not see eye to eye with the church on some different issues any more (I won't bore you with the details about the differences in beliefs right here, but might do so later for those interested in such things).
VGSr got very mad. He started telling me why I was so wrong and messed up, that I would become an enemy of God and end up going to hell...
So that fateful day, not too many months after the lies, stealing, and threats, described in the part one and part two of my story, VGSr asked to meet with me and my wife at his apartment, which was near where I lived.
We went there and met him, and he had another married couple there waiting, DJ and VJ. VGSr told me that he was concerned about how I was doing spiritually. (The issue was that I had not given my weekly $$$ to the church for the previous couple of weeks). I told him that I was not sure if I wanted to remain a member of the church, and that I did not see eye to eye with the church on some different issues any more (I won't bore you with the details about the differences in beliefs right here, but might do so later for those interested in such things).
VGSr got very mad. He started telling me why I was so wrong and messed up, that I would become an enemy of God and end up going to hell...
Lying, Stealing, and Threats, Part II
(Intro) (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (En Español)
So a couple of years went by. My doubts of the integrity of VGSr continued to mount. Ever since I met him, I would constantly get this feeling like he was lying. Except I could never catch him in a direct lie. It was usually over things that I could not verify, and the couple of times that I asked him about things he seemed to get offended, so I didn't press. I figured, if he really is lying, it will eventually come out - he can't hide it forever. If he's not, I'll just be making a fool of myself.
So after undergoing the same sensation dozens if not hundreds of times, or possibly every time VGSr opened his mouth, the time came where I was able to definitively prove for myself whether my suspicions were well-founded or not...
So a couple of years went by. My doubts of the integrity of VGSr continued to mount. Ever since I met him, I would constantly get this feeling like he was lying. Except I could never catch him in a direct lie. It was usually over things that I could not verify, and the couple of times that I asked him about things he seemed to get offended, so I didn't press. I figured, if he really is lying, it will eventually come out - he can't hide it forever. If he's not, I'll just be making a fool of myself.
So after undergoing the same sensation dozens if not hundreds of times, or possibly every time VGSr opened his mouth, the time came where I was able to definitively prove for myself whether my suspicions were well-founded or not...
Lying, Stealing, and Threats, Part I
(Intro) (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Para leerlo en Español)
Small bits of money lent bit by bit, and always with fervent promises of soon paying back everything, turned into thousands of dollars (yeah, I know, I was pretty dumb). Part of it was from lending a phone line in my name, which added a couple of hundred dollars every month for several months.
But it came to the point where I realized that the promises to repay were empty at best, and blatantly deceptive at worst. I watched as VGSr* spent money all over the place on many frivolous things that I would consider much less important than trying to pay back even a dollar of what he owed me. So I cut him off.
But being the wily and manipulative sort that he is, and me being the slow and over-trusting fool that I was, let myself get trapped one more time...
Small bits of money lent bit by bit, and always with fervent promises of soon paying back everything, turned into thousands of dollars (yeah, I know, I was pretty dumb). Part of it was from lending a phone line in my name, which added a couple of hundred dollars every month for several months.
But it came to the point where I realized that the promises to repay were empty at best, and blatantly deceptive at worst. I watched as VGSr* spent money all over the place on many frivolous things that I would consider much less important than trying to pay back even a dollar of what he owed me. So I cut him off.
But being the wily and manipulative sort that he is, and me being the slow and over-trusting fool that I was, let myself get trapped one more time...
Why I Left the City Of Angels International Christian Church
(En español)
The description of my experiences has been divided into three main parts:
Part One, where one of the main leaders in the church bilks me out of thousands of dollars with lies and tricks and then threatens me (temporarily) into silence;
Part Two, where it it revealed that the lies go much farther than had at first been evident; and that going to top leadership (aka, Kip McKean) is useless,
Part Three, where Kip McKean and other leaders in the church threaten to try to destroy my family.
And finally, conclusions that can be drawn from all of this.
Please note that I have since left the City of Angels International Christian Church and its respective "Sold-Out Discipling Movement" and moved far away in an attempt to protect my family and our respective mental, social, spiritual, and physical health.
These things are far from pleasant for me to talk or write about. However I am sharing my story here publicly so that others can be made aware and in the hope that I can prevent at least someone from having to go through similar trauma or abuse.
Thank you for reading and for sharing these posts with others.
Want to receive new posts by email as soon as they go live? Sign up with the gadget located in the right column >>
The description of my experiences has been divided into three main parts:
Part One, where one of the main leaders in the church bilks me out of thousands of dollars with lies and tricks and then threatens me (temporarily) into silence;
Part Two, where it it revealed that the lies go much farther than had at first been evident; and that going to top leadership (aka, Kip McKean) is useless,
Part Three, where Kip McKean and other leaders in the church threaten to try to destroy my family.
And finally, conclusions that can be drawn from all of this.
These things are far from pleasant for me to talk or write about. However I am sharing my story here publicly so that others can be made aware and in the hope that I can prevent at least someone from having to go through similar trauma or abuse.
Thank you for reading and for sharing these posts with others.
Want to receive new posts by email as soon as they go live? Sign up with the gadget located in the right column >>
Aug 17, 2009
¿Débil o Descomprometido?
Cuando una persona está con Jesús, el hombre más apasionado y animado y poderoso de todos los tiempos, se espera que sea como El más que se pueda. Entonces, una persona que, estando en la iglesia, no está muy animada, victoriosa, o radiante en su vida como discípulo de Jesús, hay algo está pasando que la detiene.
No se trata de juzgar o criticar, los cuales no conducen a la vida que Jesús nos llama vivir, sino más bien ver como enfrentar esa situación y ayudara a la persona.
Hay dos posibilidades: la persona está débil, o está descomprometida. Pero las dos son muy distintas.
¿Cuál es la diferencia?
La persona débil quiere hacer todo lo que Dios le manda hacer, aunque no lo logra porque su debilidad natural de ser humano no lo deja. La persona débil se esfuerza para hacer lo correcto y realmente echa ganas dentro de lo que puede. El corazón esta allí puesto aunque la debilidad de su fe y de su cuerpo lo impide.
En cambio, la persona descomprometida realmente no quiere hacer lo que Dios manda. A lo mejor sí quiere recibir la bendición de Dios y los beneficios de estar en la iglesia, y por eso sigue allí, pero en su corazón y su mente ella rechaza al compromiso que Dios le llama tener.
A la primera vista, las acciones de las dos personas pueden parecerse, ya que las dos andan batallando en su fe y su capacidad de servir a Dios. Pero los dos corazones son muy distintos.
Un ejemplo de una persona débil sería Pedro cuando niega a Jesús y se cae de la fe (Mateo 26), o cuando se queda dormido esa misma noche (Mateo 25), o en tantos otros momentos de su vida. La debilidad de su naturaleza humana le gana al buen corazón que en teoría está dispuesto a dejarlo todo por Dios y estar pilas puestas por Jesús en el momento de la prueba. Y además
No hay duda que Pedro era un hombre comprometido Jesús y con Dios. Eso se ve de muchísimas maneras, como dejó todo para seguir a Jesús, en como andaba para arriba y para abajo todos los días con él, y como echaba muchas ganas para hacer todo lo que Jesús le decía (Juan 13:15). Pero a pesar de eso, tenía su debilidad que le llevaba a sus fallas tan conocidas. Pero también, al pasar tiempo con Jesús y luego ver todo el plan que Dios le estaba revelando, se andaba convirtiendo en un hombre muy distinto que al principio, el hombre en el cual Jesús llegó a confiar las llaves de su Reino (Lucas 15, Hechos 2:36)
Un ejemplo de una persona descomprometida podría ser el que falta a una reunión de la iglesia para ir a trabajar o pasarlo con su familia o para ir a hacer otra cosa. Una persona débil falta porque está demasiada enferma para salirse de la cama o porque se le sobrevino una gran depresión por una muerte o otra cosa fuerte que le pasó. El joven rico fue descomprometido (en el momento, yo personalmente creo que después se arrepentió y llegó a ser un líder conocido en la iglesia del primer siglo) y Pedro fue una persona débil.
Hay veces que una persona que está débil por mucho tiempo se convierte en un discípulo descomprometido. Por tiempo sin vivir el con el compromiso completo por una situación que no puede controlar, se enfría en su amor por Dios y llega al punto de ya no querer poner primero el Reino.
Si tú estás débil, debes hacer lo que yo hice - mudarme a un lugar donde hay discípulos verdaderos y fuertes. Así vas a lograr levantar tu ánimo y fe para poder hacer grandes cosas para Dios y primero Dios alcanzar la salvación de tu alma. Si eres descomprometido, ¡arrepiéntate y ama a Dios sobre todas las cosas! Ora y pídele a Dios que te conceda un cambio radical de corazón, de lo contrario, ¡Jesús te va a escupir de su boca! (Apocalipsis 3:15-16)
Sep 17, 2007
Los Pescadores - Una Parabola para los Tiempos Modernos
Actualización: En tiempos atrás, yo fui miembro, fanático, y líder de la secta de Kip McKean, la Iglesia Cristiana Internacional "City of Angels" en Los Angeles. Pero después de ver la gran hipocresía y abuso de parte de los líderes, me tuve que ir, y ahora mi pequeño blog se dedica a advertir a los inocentes a tener mucho cuidado al no ser abusados también por los mismos tipos corruptos y malintencionados que ya han usado y lastimado a tanta gente.
Por favor lea ese artículo que describe exactamente que es lo que paso conmigo bajo el liderazgo abusivo de Kip McKean y de Víctor Gonzalez Sr.
Abajo, el texto original de esa pagina, escrito cuando yo estaba bajo el abuso y control de los tipos mencionados arriba:
Su servidor, ahora el traductor de los artículos de Kip McKean al espanol:
Los Pescadores - Una Parabola para los Tiempos Modernos
(Confieso, me lo tuvieron que corregir para que quedara bien!)
Por favor lea ese artículo que describe exactamente que es lo que paso conmigo bajo el liderazgo abusivo de Kip McKean y de Víctor Gonzalez Sr.
Abajo, el texto original de esa pagina, escrito cuando yo estaba bajo el abuso y control de los tipos mencionados arriba:
Su servidor, ahora el traductor de los artículos de Kip McKean al espanol:
Los Pescadores - Una Parabola para los Tiempos Modernos
(Confieso, me lo tuvieron que corregir para que quedara bien!)
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)