Dec 10, 2012

Lying, Stealing, and Threats, Part I

(Intro) (Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Para leerlo en Español)

Small bits of money lent bit by bit, and always with fervent promises of soon paying back everything, turned into thousands of dollars (yeah, I know, I was pretty dumb). Part of it was from lending a phone line in my name, which added a couple of hundred dollars every month for several months.

But it came to the point where I realized that the promises to repay were empty at best, and blatantly deceptive at worst. I watched as VGSr* spent money all over the place on many frivolous things that I would consider much less important than trying to pay back even a dollar of what he owed me. So I cut him off.

But being the wily and manipulative sort that he is, and me being the slow and over-trusting fool that I was, let myself get trapped one more time...
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There was a big conference coming up out of town, and VGSr just needed to borrow my credit card to pay for a van to transport himself and other leaders visiting from out of town. I would not be lending to him, but rather to the church itself, he assured me, and the reimbursement check would be very promptly written out in my name as soon as we returned from the conference, and VGSr would take no part in touching the money.

So I lent my card, we went and returned, and went to turn in the van at the rental place. It was an hour late so they wanted to charge an extra day, an extra couple hundred dollars. VGSr seemed unconcerned and didn't think we should try to contest the extra charges. The total bill was well over a thousand dollars.

So then started the battle for reimbursement. First he told me that the church would cut me a check at the next staff meeting. Then when I asked about it, there was some problem like the check writer wasn't there or something, but the next time he would get it. Then something else. Then something else. Then I started to get a little mad so he said he would make sure it got taken care of this time. So then he calls me and tells me he has the check, but is really busy, so can he give it to me in a day or two? Fine. Then he calls and asks if it is OK if he cashes the check and gives me the money in cash, rather than a check. I say, well, OK. (Thinking, why would the check be made out in a way that he could even cash it? Shouldn't it be in my name?) Then, he tells me, some expenses came up for his daughter's school so he had to spend the money, but that he would pay me back his next paycheck. The same lies he always used to tell me!

I got mad and told him I was going to go talk to his boss, Kip. VGSr freaked out and threatened me, telling me that if I talked to Kip about it that not only would our relationship be over, he would no longer train or associate with me in any way, but that he would use his position of power to try to make my life as difficult and miserable as possible in any way that he could.

So rather than reacting like any man with even the slightest kind of balls, spine or manhood would, I buckled and closed my mouth. I let myself be threatened and bullied, by someone who was totally in the wrong. I did and said nothing.

I let VGSr steal from me, lie to me, and then bully and threaten me into silence.

And by remaining silent, I probably enabled him to do the same thing to others.

I am very, very sorry. Hopefully this post will help rectify things a little bit, even if it is very late, and not much.

Part 2, things get worse >>

*VGSr is the initials of the minister in question, one of the main leaders in the church. If you can't figure it out, he is known for leading the Latin Ministry and for having a lot of kids.

31 comments:

  1. So, you let one single sinful man turn you away from the church and not bring it to the leaders?

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    1. Debra, if you read the following two posts, you will find that I did in fact take the situation to the top leaders, who made the situation even worse by threatening me and making a direct attempt to destroy my family.

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  2. So, let me get this straight. You let one single sinful man turn you away from the church and not bring the situation to the leaders?

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    1. Victor Gonzalez Sr, the sinful man to whom you refer, is one of the top leaders of the church. And in the other two posts that follow this one, I describe how I took the situation to Kip McKean, the top leader in the church. Kip did not help whatsoever. And even worse, he went on to threaten me and my family multiple times!

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  3. So, let me get this straight. You let one single sinful man turn you away from the church and not bring the situation to the leaders?

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    1. You miss the point, the church is run by such leaders, they all have each others back covered. It's not a church it's a cult, the leader above VGSr is far worse than VGSr and will defend his choice of leader above any accusation every time, it's what they do, the exploit people's desire to build the cult then blame the victim or threaten the victim, they are evil.

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    2. Debra, as described in my posts, I already went to Kip McKean, the top leader of the whole association of churches. He not only rebuffed me in a fake, set-up meeting, he then proceeded to threaten to DESTROY MY FAMILY.

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  4. if you have any of the messages he left you promising to pay you - sue him. Matter of fact, he is an agent of the church sue both of them.

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    1. These guys are pro's they know to have no evidence linking them to the crime beyond words, they've conned hundreds of people over the years they become experts who target the vulnerable. Kip gets others to do his dirty work so he can't be caught, it's all spoken never written down so they can't get caught, they've been doing this con for decades.

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    2. I was in a sector with KIP he is not all that. They do this to people, because no one stands up to him - he yelled at me one time, I yelled back and he backed down.

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    3. To Anonymous (Dec 3): Unfortunately, as I understand is often the case with professional con men, Victor never left me any messages or anything written - he made sure that everything was always a verbal agreement, which I realized too late was one of the techniques that they use to turn it into a "he said, she said" type situation, where the church leaders can pretend that they "can't really know" what happened. Even though in this case, I had Victor's full confession in front of another top leader, Jeremy Ciaramella, who chose to stand by Kip McKean and Victor Gonzalez Sr. rather than speak the truth (in an incident to be described in more detail in the near future).

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    4. To Anonymous (Mar 11): You are right. I wish that I had realized this earlier.

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    5. To Anonymous (April 25): Thanks for posting! I admire you for standing up for yourself. Sadly, this was a skill that I did not have at the time of these interactions with the ICC leadership.

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  5. #1: I agree with "Anonymous" above (although doesn't the Bible say something about Xians not suing & taking each other to court?).

    #2: I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family, but hopefully you were able to learn a lot about yourself and about people in this church. I too was a member with my husband (though in another city) and we both decided to leave due to the way we were being treated. Your story reminded me of how much leaders are idolized and have the image that they can do no wrong. I hope your story goes on to help many others to find their voices to speak out. In the church we're taught to be loving and to assume the best of people, but unfortunately it can lead to being manipulated especially by leaders. Just know and rest assured that God is in charge and He has seen all that has happened. Trust that He will show you all that you need to learn from this and will give you the strength to move on and forgive (yourself, VGSr, & the others). And never forget that God is the Avenger. He will take care of VGSr and Kip & whomever else when the time comes. At least you had the courage to alert the leaders about what's going in their church, and now God will handle the rest. Please continue in your faith and not let these people discourage your relationship with God. Best wishes to you and your family.

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    1. Thanks so much for your comments!

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  6. The Bible says don't sue other XTIANS - It does not say don't sue BS leaders who manipulate and lie.

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    1. It's all part of the con, they call themselves Christians and exploit other Christians knowing they won't fight back, Christians are soft targets for cults so that's why they pick them and exploit them for every dime they can.

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    2. True and true, thank you both for your comments.

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  7. To Debra, either you haven't been a part of this controlling ministry or any other or you're still in with blinders on. I was part of the ICC and allowed myself to do foolish things at the demand of the leaders, often ignoring the warning bells going off in my head. As far as going to the "head" the system was a heirarchy and to "jump" levels would have been seen as disrespectful and you would have been called divisive. Kip's ministry ingrains in you that his church is God's kingdom and if you leave or forced out, you are hell bound. Yes it sounds stupid to those never in, but true believers are hooked. You don't see it until you leave.

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    1. True words, true words. Thanks for posting.

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  8. Can you go in to a bit more detail about that first paragraph. What made you give? I know for me they used fake love, flattery and talk of how awesome it was for me to give to be building the kingdom of Kip and since it was for the kingdom they never thought to pay it back, ie the ends justifying the means and then them taking the glory with my money, using charm to rob Peter to pay Paul.

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    1. A misplaced desire to "help," and a misplaced trust in the word and integrity of the person I was "helping," aka, the soulless individual who was lying to me and using me for selfish ends, only to be discarded later, as he has done with countless other people before me and after me.

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  9. You were not dumb at all you were professionally conned by experts in conning who con for a living.

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    1. Thank you. I still feel foolish for falling for the con, but there is truth in your words.

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  10. I really appreciate for your time writing this out. Im currently part of the church. I have had many doubts in this church. Im vey glad to find this out. :-)

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    1. Thanks for commenting. The church works very hard to create illusions. However, they are just that - illusions. The more I find out about the church the more let down I am - the lies and deceit are built in to every aspect. Most "rank and file" members honestly have NO IDEA whatsoever.

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  11. What region of the church were you a part of?

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  12. What are your thoughts on the ICOC?

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