10. Two-thirds of the ICC is made up of college students between the ages of 18 and 22. Most drop out of college because they are unable to manage both school and the rigorous church schedule that each member is required to adhere to: church on Sunday, midweek service on Wednesday, bible talk on Friday, discipiling (D-times) meetings, evangelism or "sharing" several hours a day, bible studies with new recruits, "serving" paid staff leaders by house cleaning, baby sitting, running errands for them, etc. Failure to meet these demands are met with brow beating sessions where students are made to feel that they have a bad heart and are selfish by not putting the church first and as a result risk going to hell.
9. All three of Kip McKean's kids went to private school, graduated from Ivy-League colleges, and went to graduate school. Kip's children left the organization and want nothing to do with the church. Side Note: during her college years, Kip's eldest child suffered from bouts of depression and thoughts of suicide due to the scrutiny and intense pressure to preform which are hallmarks of Kip's leadership and church culture. Since many within the ICC (including top leaders), as well as ex-members have shared that they too have experienced these emotions as a result of their affiliation with the church, Kip felt compelled to write an article on the topic of Acedia, The Forgotten Sin to deflect his responsibility in cultivating an environment where depression is common because members never feel like they are able to do enough or measure up to Kip's standard.
8. The organization's internal college, ICCM, is not accredited. Several students have dropped out of legitimate universities to enroll in the ICCM.
7. Many of the ICC's top leadership (World Sector Leaders) is comprised of men who have been married multiple times, fathered children outside of marriage, and spent time in jail for fraud. A one time WSL committed adultery twice with prostitutes. When questioned about the lack of credibility and experience of the men and women he has appointed to oversee churches and world sectors , Kip's response is "The church just doesn't have the talent..."
6. Members are required to "tag" (stand on street corners or busy intersections begging for money) to raise funds for Special Missions and countless retreats, conferences, workshops, etc. hosted by the church. It's not unusual for college students to use their financial aid money to make their Special Missions requirement. The pressure to fund these projects are often so great that the son of a high ranking shepherding couple was arrested for stealing watches from a department store to make his special missions contribution.
5. The church often preaches that if one is not regularly "fruitful" (personally meeting, studying the bible, and baptizing someone) they will be cut off from Jesus and thrown into hell. Yet, no one can remember the last time Kip's wife, Elena McKean, was personally fruitful nor any of her direct disciples. Apparently, John 15:5-8 doesn't apply to them.
4. The church systematically infantilizes its members by requiring that members get permission (ie. "advice") from church leaders about everything in their lives-where to live, where to work, where to go to school, who to date, whom to marry, whether or not they can go on vacation. Students in particular are discouraged from going home during school break to visit family.
3. Excluding college students, the remainder of the church is made up of the "working poor". Individuals and families that can barely make ends meet yet are guilted into sacrificing all they have to the church with the promise that God will take care of them. Yet, the only people God seems to be "taking care of" is those in upper leadership.
2. The church does not baptize foreigners unless they agree to return to their country of origin with the sole purpose to expand the ICC.
1. Kip believes that he is a "modern day apostle", "God's right hand man", and a "high priest." He often uses Deuteronomy 17:12-13 to instill fear and compliance in those that are "arrogant" enough to question his decisions and actions:
"The person who acts arrogantly, refusing to listen either to the priest who stands there serving the Lord your God or to the judge, MUST DIE. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 Then all the people will hear about it, be afraid, and no longer behave arrogantly."
This list was originally a series of anonymous comments on the ExICC.org post, Crosswalk.com: 10 Signs of an Abusive Church. The comments were so well written that it is now going to live as it's own, separate post. I found it to be overwhelmingly accurate, and even learned a few juicy tidbits that were new to me.
I was in the church for 20 years and was recruited as a college student. Kip's tricks haven't changed in 30 years. He is still manipulating people.ReplyDelete
Thanks for commenting! It sure stings in a lasting way when you trust someone completely, give your all, and then find out that they were scamming you the whole time.Delete
I was in his church from 1984 to 2006, and i experienced every single point that this article states plus more! Not only was i scared emotionally from their cult like practices, but his leadership deliberately sought to separate me from my parents and siblings, so they could not have any more influence on me. To this day i regret some of the decisions i made back then because of the enormous pressure heaped on me from the Boston Church of Christ. Unless he truly repents from the heart, he will pay for all the pain, and emotional damaged he has caused.Delete
We need to trust that God's timing is the right timing. HE has His own way ... with compassion to this lost soul & at the same time punish him for his dues, in God's way. The more sinful things HE does, the harder he will fall, It's a matter of time. TRUST our ABBA ... MAY God Bless You To Forgive The Trespasser So That You Could Have Peace, AMEN!Delete
Truer words were never spake. I was a member of the Boston Church of Christ and other International Churches of Christ for 32 years. I wouldn't be saved if it weren't for Kip's evangelistic thrust in Boston, but there were excesses (but I don't see many of the things mentioned above).Delete
I became a member of the International Church of Christ just before Kip McKean got the boot from being its leader, or should I say its dictator. What you have experienced is EXACTLY what I experienced. Fortunately for me it wasn't for very long. For my wife, on the other hand, it unfortunately was. My wife was there as part of the ICOC shortly after it was established and went through many sessions of Kip's brainwashing through the appointed leaders who got his brainwashing first-hand. Since my wife has such a naturally pure and loving heart (It was one of the many reasons I fell in love with her and knew that I wanted her to be my wife.), it especially affected her. Briefly experiencing what the church was like when Kip was still "large and in charge" and still being a part of it now that he has been kicked to the curb I see the difference. The church is MUCH better now!!! I have been terribly sick with diabetes and have missed a lot of church services and church functions which I can't help but think that I would have been browbeaten for if Kip was still ruling the ICOC with his iron fist. Now, it's not like that. It took some time but my wife finally came to realize that what Kip did was wrong. Kip McKean is an antichrist. His own children, last I heard, have disassociated themselves from him. Kip's brother Randy didn't even stand by him because he knew that his brother was wrong. This shows you what he's like. The guy is on a power trip. Power for him is a drug and he's addicted. It's obvious by this blog that he is still the same way which isn't surprising. A leopard can't change his spots after all. He's right up there with Jim Jones and David Koresh and all those other cult leaders. He needs therapy, SERIOUS therapy!!! I pray that those who are still under Kip's brainwashing will be able to get deprogramed somehow, someway for their sake. If they don't then may God watch over them.Delete
I was in the Boston Church of Christ, the Crossroads Church of Christ, and knew Kip when he was still a student at the University of Florida. Sadly, all of the criticisms of this religious group are true in the sense that this group has a flawed theological understanding, an unsound view of the scriptures, and the psychologically unhealthy behavior of Kip McKean and his religion have produced a steady group of bad outcomes for people who are really honest with themselves. There are so many other alternatives to the ICC and its many offshoots that are better for your health, your family, and your peace of mind. Life is too short to live with hateful insecure people. run away and find the true love of Christ.Delete
I meant to say I was in the ICOC for 20 years.ReplyDelete
Yep, while in the ICOC (or ICC) "the church" is shorthand for the ICOC (or ICC), since we were taught to believe that we were part of the one and only true church (a doctrine called OTC, the One True Church doctrine.) So it's an easy slip to make, but thanks for clarifying! :)Delete
LOL funny read.Delete
I hear all of you and am sorry for your pain. I was a member in college and came back as an adult. I went through great pain myself. However, I have to forgive these people (just like Christ did at the cross) or God is not going to forgive me. Churches are madeup of sinners and I was a part of it and didn't try to stop things that I knew were wrong so I am at fault myself. The biggest lesson I learned is to have my own convictions from the bible and to never violate my conscience I only do what I can I don't let people push me around anymore or talk me into things I don't feel good about. I have learned that we all need each other and that we need to help one another grow when we are at fault. Doing what the bible says and not what people say remains something that sticks with me everyday. I have met with kip a few years ago. He was super humble and took responsibility He doesn't even make decisions for the church anymore. He doesn't want to be blamed for things so he is more or less the face of it but that's about it. I was very impressed with the man he has become after God humbled him in such a dramatic way. Kip knows he messed up but I love that he has made many attempts to reconcile with people including me who is not even a leader. I have since left his church and attend the ICOC now.I still have great memories of kip who is only a man not a God and how God has changed his life for the better. I'm so proud of him and Elena to be so humble. They really have changed. In the ICC I never felt like I had to do something just because they said it. I did feel like that in the old movement but not anymore. IM sure you can have some leadership in ICC that lacks maturity and gives bad advice but as disciples we are suppost to handle it like the bible says (Matthew 18)regardless of peoples actions we have to be righteous. Other peoples sin is no excuse for us to make their sin our sin. I hope this helps and again I am very sorry for anything that hurt you in this movement. I love you all :)Delete
Nice. We all definitely do need to forgive Kip for any sins of leadership. Live and learn.Delete
I was a member of the ICC for about three years and witnessed many of the things outlined in the above post. While in the church, I befriended a mother of a young disciple who shared that she had become increasingly concerned about her daughter's involvement with the group. Apparently, before joining the church her daughter was a straight A student. However, after becoming a disciple her daughter's grades began to drop as she became more consumed with "being fruitful" (church speak for recruiting new members) and was eventually placed on academic probation. When the mother attempted to address these concerns with her daughter, the daughter accused her of "persecuting" the church.ReplyDelete
I later came to learn that many of the campus students in the church were actually not students. They dropped out of school to devote themselves to "advancing the kingdom" (church speak for growing the group). Although most of the church is made up of young adults between the ages of 18-24, sadly many of them are no longer students.
Another red flag for me is the number of church leaders who have children with severe emotional/behavioral problems, suffer from eating disorders, depression, etc. Instead of putting the needs of their families first especially in crisis situation like those I listed, church leaders time after time place the needs of the church above their families. And the few occasions when a church leader's son or daughter does get baptize, they "fall away" (church speak for leaving God) within a matter of months.
One particular incident that really disturbed me is when one of the staff leaders in the DC ICC shared that she was teaching her young child that "being shy is a sin." It's no wonder why "Kingdom Kids" (kids that grow up in the church) often want nothing to do with their parent's religion.
Thank you for commenting. Everything that you mentioned is also characteristic of my experience in every ministry associated with Kip McKean, whether it was in the ICOC during the time under his leadership, or later on under his leadership in the ICC.Delete
Speaking of the DC ICC, parents should be aware that Ron Harding once preached a sermon in which he mentioned that he had found evidence that a leader in his church had visited or had attempted to visit a child pornography website. He discovered this while doing tech support on the guy's computer. (I mentioned this in another forum, so I bet dollars to donuts that particular sermon vanished offline). Ron's point was to highlight sin and the need to obey, repent, let the church control your life...the usual. But all I could think was, "Did you report this guy? Do you still allow him to attend services and be around children? Or are you just going to shame him anonymously so that he will grovel and continue to be a slave to the church?" I'm disgusted that the parents in that congregation didn't demand to know who this person was and if Ron had reported him. Any church that puts itself before the well-being of children has no moral standing. I hope any visitors hearing the sermon that day had the good sense to see this as a red flag and never return.ReplyDelete
Something else parents should be aware of: church leaders will tell minor children that they do not have to and should not obey their parents who do not belong to the church because these parents are sinful. Further, male leaders in the DC ICC have attempted to pressure female teens into "studying the Bible" and then mocked their non-ICC parents. Why are these grown men engaging teenage girls? Not that it's appropriate for any adult to pressure kids in this way, but you would think that these men would want to avoid even the suggestion of impropriety. To me this is proof of how they only care about adding to their numbers, at all costs, with no regard for what's appropriate.
Finally, the arranged marriages among the campus ministry "students" in the DC ICC is alarming. Many of these young people put their testimonies out on social media, sparing no detail, and you can see how broken and lost they are. But they see the ICC as a magic elixir, and the idea of them not getting real help for the trauma they've endured and then marrying someone else who is in the same boat and who is also being misled by the ICC, is beyond sad. And they drop out of college, as has been mentioned, which limits their job prospects and compounds the problem. It also pretty much guarantees that they will continue to work for the ICC...because where else can they go?
Thanks for commenting. It has come to my attention that the ICC seems to systematically fail to turn members over to any legal authorities in cases when the law has been broken, and even in cases where people have been sexually abused. The arrogant attitude is that "the church (ICC leadership) will deal with it" and it comes from a belief that "the church" is a higher authority than anyone or anything else, including the police and the government. Unfortunately, as other organizations have found out over time, this causes bigger problems in the long term and countless people are hurt in the meantime. You know, beyond the damage caused by mere membership and participation in the "normal" activities of behavior control practiced by the group.Delete
I find this very disturbing. Not too long ago, Ron Harding's son was molested by a teacher's aide at his school. The Hardings immediately reported the assault to the police (as they should have) and then contacted the media. According to the WJLATV news article (http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/12/yee-tak-sharon-kui-montgomery-county-teacher-accused-of-sexual-assault-flees-to-hong-kong-97598.html), "The Harding family said they chose to air their plight in case Kui molested other students who are too scared to come forward. 'First and foremost our concern is for our son and our family, but also we're concerned for other potential victims that we believe there may be,' Harding added."Delete
Yet, when similar crimes and/or other improprieties occur within the church, it's handled internally and very rarely, if ever, involves the authorities. This is in keeping with the church's belief that when it comes to its members the church's doctrine is and should be held in higher authority than the government. A belief that Ron affirms in his blog KipMcKean.com, "These men swayed those who held positions on the Board of Directors to use the authority given to them by the “laws of the United States” to supersede the “laws of the Scriptures”..."
Very true. You make excellent points and thank you for connecting those dots to point out the double standard of what ICC leaders are willing do do for their OWN kids, while allowing members' kids to suffer rather than put another member in the legal hot seat (and thereby shedding a negative light on the ICC). Sadly, it seems that it is easier to continue to sell the falsity that Kip's ministries are free of financial and sexual scandal, etc.Delete
Here's yet another example of why this site is so necessary. There are plenty of horror stories online about Kip 1.0 (ICOC), but far fewer about the ICC. Yet it's the same abuse, same hypocrisy, same false teachings. And people are starting to leave and tell their stories. These anecdotes will be helpful to others who have suspicions about the ICC, for themselves or their loved ones, and/or who are struggling to leave.Delete
Yes, the "new, improved" version of Kip's ministries are really just the worst of the SOS repackaged to take advantage of more gullible and trusting victims.Delete
Why do you believe the new ICC is even worse?Delete
Top Ten Sure Signs Kip "Dr. Spin" McKean Leads Your Church/Movement:Delete
10. One of Kip's "best friends" and right hand man is on his THIRD marriage as a disciple. I'm sure there is something about an "overseer being the husband of one wife" somewhere in the Bible. Right?!?
9. Another one of Kip's "best friends" and newly appointed WSL has been able to secure PAID staff positions for his brothers and sister-in laws. Many of whom lack real world job experience. It's not what you know but who you know in the ICC!
8. Every Sunday sermon is about money and the importance of recruiting new members in order to....(you guessed it!)...make more money for the church.
7. Kip's articles are full of half truths and not so cleverly disguised humble brags. Like this one, "These heroic efforts were propelled by a vision to put DYNAMIC [capitalized for emphasis] Campus Ministries on every campus in America! Baptized and then inspired to go into the ministry were Sam & Geri Laing, Tom & Kelly Brown, Bruce & Robyn Williams, Martin & Carmen Bentley, ELENA & ME... In all about 70 campuses in America were either affected directly or indirectly by this pioneering ministry." -Spiritual Amnesia
6. One or more of the ten Gonzalez kids are either leaving or being restored. The church is always a revolving door for this clan.
5. Many of the evangelists leading churches are barely old enough to have a glass of wine yet they are tasked with giving spiritual, marital, financial, career, etc. "advice" (well actually it's more like permission because failure to follow "advice" is a big No, No in the church ).
4. Members are marked/disfellowshiped for having a different opinion than that of the leader. Kip likes to call this "contempt". We refer to it as-"Just another one of Kip's narcissistic tendencies."
3. Kip and Co. get their confidence from constant ego stroking. This is not more evident than at midweek and Sunday service when leaders will stop their sermon and admonish the congregation for not being "fired-up enough" when they don't hear a cornucopia of "AMENS" "C'MON ON BROTHA", "PREACH IT!" after every point.Delete
2. Staff and Leaders meetings eventually turn into a symposium to discuss members' sins, struggles, and bad attitudes in detail.
1. Kip awards himself a doctorate from his unaccredited university, ICCM.
Thanks for the comments. All are also excellent and valid points of why the ICC sucks.Delete
I was a member for 13 years and was in the leadership. What you are saying is true. You could not do anything without consulting the leaders and if you rejected their advice, you would be termed "prideful" and "not obeying leaders" and could even lead to you being dropped a s a leader. About the leader's meetings being symposiums to discuss members' sins, struggles and bad attitudes in detail, that is so true. It was during such meetings when they decided who was spiritually weak, struggling and who should be "disfellowshipped" (meaning asked to leave the church) I am so glad God took me out of this cult. I was headed for hell and yet I thought everyone else was going to hell except me. This is what is taught. That if you are not a member of their church, then you are going to hell. God save people from ICC!!Delete
Everyone should know that Kip McKean used these "exact" same tactics when he began his first cult in the 1970-80's at Crossroads Church of Christ, in Gainesville, Floirda. His narcissism and arrogance was stifling. There were many students who committed suicide or dropped out of college, because of the insurmountable pressure put on them to conform or be accused of having a sinful attitude and jeopardizing one's soul. So many lives were destroyed. This is where Kip first began his cult career.Delete
I was a member for about a year. What a destructive, deceitful bunch of hypocritesReplyDelete
Glad you were able to leave. I now wish I had left after only 1 year :/Delete
who was jailed for Fraud? was it before he was "converted"? I am dying to know.....ReplyDelete
Can't put the name on here. But one thing I can say, that list is not even close to being complete.Delete
Hi, folks. I'm one of the oldtimers; I was part of the Crossroads movement in the 1970s and 1980s, and also am one of the founders of REVEAL. I found this site through the Delphi ICC Discussion forum.ReplyDelete
It is really sad how little has changed since the 1970s, when I was in the Crossroads movement, Kip was merely one of a number of sharp young leaders under Chuck Lucas, and the (mainline) Churches of Christ had not yet wised up to what the Crossroads movement believed and was doing in their midst. :/ Attempts to control people into righteousness fails 100% of the time, at least from what I've seen. I have seen those attempts in multiple iterations of the Crossroads/Boston/ICOC/ICC, in groups in my current church, and even in organizations that were not remotely religious. It seems to be a recurring human fallacy to try to control others into being what God wants. God doesn't do this. You'd think we humans might learn something from that, but often we don't. (wry grin)
Somebody wise once commented that the definition of "dysfunctional" is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
Ma'am thanks so much for commenting. As you can see, as Kip's groups continue to turn over membership over the years, new blood gets caught up in the scam, providing him with a continuous source of income and free volunteer labor, along with brainwashed and misled persons to worship him and to whatever he tells them to do. Wish it weren't so.Delete
Kip and others like him as you know do have to answer to God in the end....and their smooth talk will get them no where....I wish I could stress enough that being what God wants is so simple and down to earth..It does come down to who Our God is...God says He is Love and defines that In 1Corinthians 13,,all those things are behavior based which = character...doing them can get tough and that is where the Relationship is so important that God wants with us...if I could help any that need help after being in this cult,, I would..Delete
i am in the church now, i dont know what to do. i have made alot of friends and i love some of the people there, but i dont agree with some of the things they are teaching there, i have only been going for a few months, i really need help!ReplyDelete
They get you with the friendships. However, be warned that most, or all of the friendships will dry up immediately when you leave the group. My advice would be to be very careful. Foster relationships outside the church. If you contact me through the "Contact Me" area in the right column of this page, I might be able to get you into contact with someone in your city who could be of help (especially if you live in LA.) Otherwise, you can check out Delphi Forums ( http://forums.delphiforums.com/iccdiscussion ) to seek out people you might find there who could give you more personalized help. Best of luck and be careful!Delete
I understand that this is difficult, but you really walk away. Remember, thousands upon thousands of people have left, some of them post regularly at the Delphi forums and are happy to share about their journey, specifically about their fears about leaving and the joy and freedom they have now, having left a few years or even decades ago.Delete
Also remember that any true friend would continue to be your friend even if you no longer attend the same church. Best to you.
You really *can walk away...Delete
Yes, essentially EVERYONE eventually leaves. The lucky ones leave sooner than later.Delete
Yes I can help. Go to santo bonacci. Syncretism The lamb of god. It will teach. The real truth. U won't. Regret itDelete
You don't need help - you need to be an adult. If you want to leave then leave and santo banacci is bunk.Delete
Hi Anonymous... I just started a bible study here in LA and would love to have you join us ladies. Everyone is in their 20s or early 30s. We are all seeking true friendships and more of Jesus in our lives. Here is our meetup: http://www.meetup.com/biblebabes/events/224055093/.Delete
We're meeting every Thurs at my apartment on the westside. I have been part of weird churches (including ICOC) and God has taught me soo much about what is truth and what is false. This bible study is weirdness-free and focused on Jesus and his word.
Hope to see you at one of them if you can make it.
i am also a young woman.ReplyDelete
See my above advice. They love to get young people since they are often the most trusting and gullible. They got me when I was just 18, and they sucked out my energy, finances, and everything else they could for the next 15 years.Delete
When are folks the going to see bible is total Greek mythology . I did the research. I wish it wasn't so. But facts don't lie. But people do! Go to. Dm Murdock. Or. Hidden meanings .com. Learn the facts.ReplyDelete
I am not familiar with the connection to Greek mythology. However I do know that the diseases that Jesus supposedly cured by driving out demons were actually based on biology, not spirits. And there are many other examples of why we should take the Bible with a huge metaphorical grain of salt.Delete
I am an ex-icc leader and found this blog via Delphi Forums. A lot of what is shared here is SPOT-ON especially the 10 Things Concerned Parents Should Know post. BRAVO!ReplyDelete
My comment is in response to Anonymous November 4th post-Top Ten Sure Signs, point #9. I was surprised and quite amused to hear Kip refer to Kyle Bartholomew as his best friend since it wasn't too long ago that Kyle and Vic Jr. were super tight until Kyle threw Vic under the bus. These guys were so close that when Vic Jr.'s brother (an undocumented immigrant) could not find work any where else due to his immigration status, Kyle got him a job as an intern in the Honolulu ICC. A church Kyle was leading at the time.
As evangelists both Vic and Kyle, along with with Kyle's brothers, were notorious for trash talking E.V.E.R.Y.B.O.D.Y: Chris Broom, Corey Blackwell, Michael Kirchner, Andrew Smellie, Tim Kernan, Mike Patterson, Jay Hernadez, and especially Kip! They would meet up and Jubilees/GLC(s) and spend late night hours talking smack about who got appointed, who got demoted, who should and shouldn't be on staff, who Kip's replacement is going to be (Vic declared more than once it would be him), etc. No one was off limits to these guys!
Yet, this is typical of ICC culture where allegiances and alliances are just as easily broken as they are made. It's like watching an episode of Survivor.
Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience! I observed the same from Victor Gonzalez, Sr, trash talking everyone around him, including every single member of his own family, and of course every other leader and any random member that happened to catch his attention.Delete
By the way, I think Kip's definition of friend is "someone who does whatever I tell him to do," nothing along the lines of what you or I might have in mind when we use that word. "Friendship" with Kip is one more tool, used as a carrot or a stick by him to manipulate others into doing what he wants them to do.
I am a student who just left the ICC today (after a few months of membership) after finding several forums with articles like these. I know that the ICC is currently trying to get a club established at my institution. If at all possible could someone provide me with some hard facts that I could submit to my university's campus activities board so that these people won't gain a foothold here.ReplyDelete
I am dealing with the same problem! They have established a club at my university and they are even more deceptive and forceful when they are in a society. Sometimes they lie about being affiliated with other institutions in order to get people to do Bible studies with them.Delete
Point them to this forum and to reveal.org. The other approach you could take is to sound the alarm to your fellow students. Submit an editorial to your campus newspaper; have it signed by yourself and other students they attempted to recruit. Offer your story to a student reporter to write a feature article about your experience. If you school/has a Facebook page or Twitter hashtag, post warnings there. Host a meet-up of your own to discuss warning signs of deceptive groups with your fellow students. Hand out flyers outside of their events with your story and reveal.org printed on them.Delete
Thanks for the comments! Kip's groups have been kicked off of many, many campuses in the past, but it depends on your institution whether or not that is enough reason to ban them. Your school might have to wait until they get enough complaints from students being harassed or suffering academic delinquency before they take action. You might want to work through other campus ministries, who may have more experience and can lend credibility to the seriousness of the threat that the ICC campus body would pose. Other campus ministries could testify to school administrators that the ICC is an organization that aims to steal students away from the school by 1. causing students to drop out completely in order to go into church leadership and 2. cause other students to become "zombies," students who are no longer there to study but to recruit other students into the ICC.Delete
Kip really is a legend in his own mind,, I get angry reading about the dorkDelete
Young people are the most vulnerable because they are the ICC's PRIME TARGET!!!ReplyDelete
Truth! They snagged me when I was a freshman away from home for the first time, before I could establish strong friendships with "normal" people. That was followed by 15 years of abuse, $40,000 of lost money, and countless lost opportunities in work and life. All because they were able to reach me at a vulnerable moment in my life.Delete
There is something quite evil and shameful about targeting a young person at a vulnerable moment in their life.Delete
Yes, you are totally correct.Delete
Honestly, the most painful part of the whole ICC cult is that majority of the people within it are the most compassionate and loving people I have ever pleasure of meeting. Their intentions are really good, but they are so heavily conditioned to be controlled they are afraid to speak up or mention anything bad because they might get the same fate as the fall-aways. When I fell away from the church, I remember many of my former bestest friends would just look away while tearing up or just sobbing because they can't even talk to me due to the fact I was labelled as divisive' to the church.ReplyDelete
If you want to start a cult, it makes sense to recruit people who are so nice that they will be willing to put up with anything and do whatever they are told without putting up a fuss. So the average low-level member is typically very nice and willing to let him/herself be pushed around quite a bit, at least for a time. Plus when everyone is doing the same thing and believes the same way it gives the illusion of camaraderie and lets people build quick relationships, even if they are ultimately shallow and fake, and usually break whenever someone abandons the "groupthink" of the group.Delete
Wow. Great post. I was a member of the San Francisco ICOC for about 3 years in the early 90's. I came in married at 25 (my husband also) with 2 young children. I did notice that the younger members in the campus ministries were having lots of personal problems (namely suicide and depression). They seemed to be really stressed and pressured. I remember one young man gave his whole inheritance that his grandfather had left him after dying. And the church took it! They did not even hesitate. I was outdone beyond disbelief.ReplyDelete
It was a bit different for married couples with children, I think. But, it was still a highly controlled environment nonetheless. And that bothered me a great deal. My husband had become a zombie. He could no longer make decisions for himself. One of the leaders, did try and scare us into staying with the church. He told us we were going to hell. I got up, told my husband to get the kids and that we were leaving. We never returned. I thank God to this day that I had the strength for both of us. Unfortunately, our marriage was unsustainable. We divorced a short while later.
Thank you very much for your blog.
You are welcome and thanks for commenting!Delete
First off, congratulations that you were able to stand up and reject the control. And yes, they were always by a fault ready to take people's money. I gave huge portions of my student loans, very unwisely, but with the full support of the church leadership. I also remember in the Cincy ICOC a member died in a motorcycle accident and the church engaged in a protracted legal battle with his family for a $1,000,000 insurance policy that the member had left to the church. I remember thinking about Jesus' words about letting people take your shirt and giving them your cloak as well (paraphrasing) and realizing that the church was breaking Jesus' commands. Unfortunately I didn't fully recognize the warning lights flashing in that and in so many other things and continued to give them my money, time, and energy.
Hi I am going through the same problem I know that felling I will like to talk to you he goes to the same church we are going to divorce exactly the same thingDelete
I need to help my husband I need to take him away he is giving his money bonus everything for them my email email@example.comDelete
Allismp: the first step would be to take control of the family's money -- open an account with only your name on it, and transfer money from the joint account to your personal account. 1) Deposit any money you make into your account. 2) As soon as your husband's money is deposited, transfer it to your account. You need to remove the temptation to give away money from him.Delete
Was apart of the SF Church for about 18 years...never heard of any suicides.Delete
Yes, it was difficult with kids...as it is in any family. We moved to Seattle because we thought it was a much better fit for my family. It has all worked out great...family is happy and both kids have been baptized.
Have been around since 1978, yes Kip has done some terrible things and needed to step down (and I am glad he did).
-But, I must say, some of the things that have been NEVER happened.
My relationship with God has NEVER based on anything a man has done or not done.
I am glad I am in the Church of Christ, it has been a great ride...not perfect because no person(s) is perfect. I have had to say sorry and others have had to say sorry for many different issue, but 99% has been awesome.
Still married after 25 years and we are happy.
kip just posted about "spiritual amnesia" it all about campus ministry. he is getting more intense about going after the young people on college campuses.. and what is totally messed up he signed it Dr.ReplyDelete
Ed. you need to help the young people .They are at risk,.ReplyDelete
This Icc seems to get ahold of the very young people and convince them that they are the true church of the world. It seems that something must be done to stop this cruel movement which is robbing all the young people of their future, life, and liberty. I know one thing as a grandmother I am going to do everything to convince my granddaughter that this church movement is a diabolical corrupt cult.ReplyDelete
I have been a member of ICOC since I was 18 years old and later joined the ICC church and have evidence that Michael Williamson who leads the London church has lied to the whole church slandering one of his member and calling the rest of the members to have no contacts with that person on grounds that he just fully made up out of his own imagination and which happened to be completely false and incorrect. I had always trusted leaders and such letters in the past and it suddenly dawned on me that a world sector leader was a liar. Even Kip did not take any notice of the report of this lie and just backed up Michael Williamson and called him a great guy. The church is aware of it now and nothing has been done about this. I was chocked to realize that Michael Williamson had lied without any remorse and any attempt to apologize to the person he had purposefully and knowingly slandered. This shows me that his faith is not true and that he is in fact working for the Devil.ReplyDelete
I endured the same thing.After I spoke up about the mistreatment of others in sin, I left. I didn't want to be like that.two days later, I get verbally attacked.After hanging out with a friend who was disfellowshipped, they slander my name and told people not to talk to me.Delete
Thank you for exposing the many tricks & lies that Kip has mastered. I am just praying for him to repent but, it he does not, I pray that God will expose him & shame him. He is a proud man! Even the disassociation of his children from the "church" did not humble him. In fact, he seems to be more arrogant. What do you think?ReplyDelete
I was in the ICOC for 10 years also in leadership in Europe. I couldn´t read anything about the development in the last 10 years as I had such a hard time working through this time. I ´m not only blaming the church for the hard time I went through, it is also because of my personal issues in my relationship with god.ReplyDelete
After 10 years I´m starting now to read about Kip and that he started a new movement. I really would like to know, is non of the 3 kids in one of the churches (ICC or ICOC)? I really would like to know as this was always a big thing, how your children would do spiritually. Thanks in advance for a reply!
IF you go back and review my sermon you will see that I said the page STATED that the person was looking at child pornography and that the FBI was coming to seize the computer. It was a standard thing that was posted on the screen of anyone who was infected by that virus. The virus didn't come from a site containing child pornography or YES I WOULD HAVE REPORTED THAT PERSON TO THE POLICE. Come on guys - shaking headReplyDelete
Why can't you practice integrity. You know deep down brother that what Kip is doing is wrong. Ask God what he thinks and please just listen to what he tells you. Please
@Ron: Then why did you bring that person up as an object lesson in your sermon, if they weren't doing anything wrong. And...care to share the link to the sermon?ReplyDelete
Hey Ron Harding! Is it customary for visiting evangelists to be gifted swag like the nice Geneva watch the Denver Church ICC (overseen by Jeremiah and Julie Clark) gave you for preaching a Sunday sermon? Especially in light of the fact that ICC leaders continually brow beat their members to increase their weekly pledge/tithe, require members to stand on street corners begging (ahem "tagging") for money, and demand that members give 20x-25x their weekly tithe in April/May and another 15x-20x in November.ReplyDelete
@Anon Feb. 6: Ron's probably tied up at the moment. He recently marked Steve and Kithy Ranga (former heads of the Syracuse church) for being deceptive and divisive. But I'm sure he'll come back soon and tell us why we're wrong, blah, blah, blah. He's so easy to rile up!ReplyDelete
Ron is a pathelogical LIAR. This dude will talked to you till 4 am . Tell you about all his gripes with other leadership and why he's getting discipled by lower leveled leadership with less tenor because KIP is trying to teach them something. He has ruin many relationships and the Rangas is one of them. He's afraid of his position with the church because of he and his wife having problems. His wife literally was ready to leave him last year. He is physically and verbally abusive. He's KIP right hand Man . All the the articles for Good news are said to be written by Ron but its NOT its written by KIP himself to keep it from looking too weird that KIPS elevating himself, This is such a scam. Trust me when i tell you the Rangas made a conscience decision to Leave and then are Marked for BULL. It is RON WHO IS CAUSING THE TROUBLE. you notice the pattern here. Its ok. Ron will son be moving back to LA once they find him a replacement. KIP WILL NEVER FIRE HIM he KNOWS TOO MUCH. And by the way he loves to talk about his past life of being a famous race care driver. HMMM tell me where is the money now. ??? He has none because he's broke this was the best next thing. GET OVER YOURSELF RON . WE SEE YOU AND CNN WILL SEE YOU SOON . TRUST ME.ReplyDelete
Can you share more about what lies he's told & start relationships he's ruined? That's concerningDelete
Can you share more about what lies he's told & what relationships he's ruined? That's concerningDelete
HEY RON WHEN IS YOUR WIFE LEAVING YOU ????ReplyDelete
he's just a nobody trying to be somebody . Apparently his wife saw the abuse and doesn't want anything to do with himReplyDelete
Chris Broom is another sly one. Neopolian Complex. Talks like Darth Vador LOL. Chris is a control freak. He comes off as this nice guy but inside he is a ferocious wolf and will not follow the bible. They will do what there father the Devil tells them.ReplyDelete
Ron & Kip were marked by the LAICC for being deceptive and divisive when their movement was in it's infancy. At one point, Ron was a very good friend of mine. Sad to see we where he is now.ReplyDelete
In response to the departure of the Rangas, Ron is cracking down! He's teaching on submission--to leaders and authority. Hey, Ron...at least one of your members is SUBMITTING all of this info to folks like me who know you are in service to a corrupt and abusive system. This is what happens when you berate and manipulate people to get them to do your bidding: they learn to smile and nod in your face, but something totally opposite lurks in their hearts.ReplyDelete
And you should stop reading all of this "spiritual pornography." It makes you unhinged and people are noticing...
tipical and not surprised . Threaten their money trainReplyDelete
HEY RON GOOD MESSAGE ON SUNDAY. YOU KEEP SAYING SOMETHING OVER AND OVER AGAIN PEOPLE WILL BELIEVED THE LIE. WE ARE ON TO YOU. THERE ARE 40 OF US AND WE ARE A TIGHT GROUP WITHIN YOUR CHURCH. AND WE WILL DISMANTLE PIECE BY PEICE. STAY ALERT . WE ARE ON TO YOU AND WE ARE WATCHING EVERYTHING. AND WE WILL SOON EXPOSE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU . SO EITHER YOU STEP DOWN AND COME CLEAN OR WE WILL DO IT FOR YOU PUBLICLY . YOU HAVE 24 HOURSReplyDelete
To @Anonymous February 12, 2015 at 7:07 AM:ReplyDelete
24 Hours have come and gone and nothing has happened.
Look, I'm no fan of the ICC (or any other cults/religions) at all........but what's needed in this situation is rational discussion and light - not grammatically-incorrect empty threats written by someone who has no intention/power to carry them out (let alone any intention to learn how to spell or to fix a stuck caps-lock key).
Oh dear anonymous or should i say RON. WHATS THE MATTER ARE YOU WORRIED ?????. You are correct it has come and gone. You do not know what to expect now do you ?? Its already started. So cheers to you my friend and ill keep you in my prayers. So did i do better this time with my spelling ???ReplyDelete
This is *not* Ron. Nor am I a fan of his, or of the cultic "movement" he represents. I as much as anyone else want to see things brought to light. I certainly want to see Kip and his minions exposed for who they really are. But at the same time I think that people who come off as crazy - i.e., shouting in all caps, utilizing sloppy grammar, etc. - do more harm than good. The SODM's supporters look at posts such as the one you've written and say, "There you go; this proves that the critics of the movement are just a bunch of uneducated, hyper-emotional, illogical, bitter nutcases." And that ends up *benefiting* rather than harming the cult. The anti-cult movement needs spokespersons who are articulate and emotionally balanced - not people who make us look like a bunch of crazies.ReplyDelete
Just wanted to share this link, this guy is one of the best cult apologists I have seen in a long time he could exactly be talking about the ICCReplyDelete
While I agree that articulate responses are preferable to inarticulate ones, I think it's important to keep in mind that there's nothing stopping ICC members from posing as inarticulate critics in an attempt to discredit the critics. So hopefully, people are discerning and will look beyond someone's typing and grammar to the heart and substance of the matter, which is that this group and its leaders has a long history of being spiritually abusive and deceptive, that their fundamental flaws remain the same, and that Kip McKean is an arrogant, unrepentant meglomaniac.ReplyDelete
*HAVE a long historyReplyDelete
I may not be the best writer. And maybe i could communicate better. I am not crazy. And i am educated. If i wasn't educated, Who cares. There are many hurting idividuals who have suffered irrefutable harm finically mentally and emotionally , the systematic mind control and manipulation of feeling your loved and to just find out your just a number. Perhaps i am crazed , maybe all of us are who would participate in this organization. I take responsibility for not following my gut, and following MAN.ReplyDelete
February 12, 2015 at 7:07 AMReplyDelete
It's unlikely Ron reads this blog, especailly on a regular basis, so 24hrs notice would mean nothing to him. Also if there was going to be a "mutiny" in the church why are you still there? why not just leave? why be in a church where you are unhappy?
@AnonymousFebruary 17, 2015 at 1:45 PM........my thoughts exactly! @AnonymousFebruary 16, 2015 at 6:54 AM - why stay? Get the hell out of Dodge before the cult does any more damage to you and your family! You *cannot* change them; they will *never* change. Many have tried to bring about change from within and have failed. Even if Ron *did* repent and change things in the church radically, Kip would not put up with it. He would simply fire Ron, or call him back to LA for more "training", and then send new leaders to DC to keep the sheep in line. If Ron or the DC church continued to push back, Kip would probably mark/disfellowship him for "contempt" (or Ron would leave on his own) - and then Kip would "reconstruct" or "replant" the DC church just as he did with Vic Jr. and Mexico City.ReplyDelete
If you put them on TV news (CNN/Fox/etc.).....remember that Kip and co. *thrive* on this kind of attention (or "persecution"). It's like free advertising for them, and it only reinforces their sense of specialness ("we're being persecuted just like the early Christians so me must be doing the right thing").
No - the best way to stop them (if that's even possible) is with your feet and your wallet. Pull yourself, your family, and the 40 others out. Loss of attendance/numbers/money is the only thing that gets Kip's attention.
fyi- rumor has it Ron & the family are movng back to LA in the summer of 2015ReplyDelete
I understand that would probably be a positive for them . However I think this would shake the loose leaves on the tree. Its better than nothing and it at least plants a seed to think. What do you thinkReplyDelete
Ron *does* read this blog, as evidenced by his post above. Ron is the ICC's web evangelist, so part of his job is scouring the Internet for "persecution sites" like this. He is an ongoing battle at Wikipedia. He makes periodic appearances at the Delphi forums as well, searching his name, then posting all defensive in response to what he finds. When he's logged in as himself, you can see the last date he was on the site. Of course, he could be reading that site everyday, without being logged in, so there's no record of it.ReplyDelete
Of course the point still stands that Ron doesn't necessarily check this board daily, and that leaving makes more sense than demanding he step down. Leaving makes sense, period. Just leave; Ron nor any of those people are owed an explanation. Some people who leave struggle with guilt and fear in the aftermath, so counseling is also highly recommended.
That said, I have observed something interesting about leadership at the DC ICC. Ron replaced Carlos Mejia (sp?) as Lead Evangelist. And if the rumors are true and Ron goes back to LA, my bet is that he'll be replaced by someone from outside of the DC church. Now the Hamiltons came from NC to DC, so even if Bill replaced Ron, he's still from the outside. DC doesn't seem to be growing its own leaders and keeping them in DC. And from the perspective of someone who would like to see this whole operation collapse into a pile of ash, this is a good thing. I hope it means that the strong arm tactics aren't taking solid enough hold on the rank and file members such that new leaders can be cultivated. I wonder if DC has a higher than average percentage of members who were never part of the ICOC, as compared to ICCs in other cities. That would explain a lot.
Noel Garcia is a long-time DC member. I think he came from the Baltimore church. He leads a house church, but I wonder if he would ever be made a Lead Evangelist. He's truly one of the creepiest people I've ever met. And his wife tried to love bomb me once...yuck. Neither one of them is "sharp" the way Kip likes his leaders and their wives.
My guess is that if Ron does leave, they'll send in yet another person from outside of DC to lead.
Another thing I noticed about DC is that they don't know much or talk much about Kip. I've talked to baptized members who had never even heard of him. I think he's only visited once in the last few years and didn't make a good impression. So I suspect that a good amount of the DC rank and file are earnest people who don't fully grasp the larger system that they are a part of. They know it exists, but they certainly don't know the real deal about Kip, his expensive condo and lavish lifestyle, nor the church's true history.
I also wonder if Kip is beginning to check out. What's in it for him to keep berating people, but a headache? He's set for life financially. His Good News emails were nothing but brag-fests and numbers, but who is the audience for them? No one outside of the ICC is impressed or takes him seriously. Those emails used to be weekly; I guess someone realized that the numbers weren't actually painting a very good picture of the "movement."
Finally a word about "persecution" for anyone in the church who may be reading this and who has doubts about the ICC. Let's say you and your family go to a restaurant and have terrible service, get food poisoning, are overcharged, and the manager refuses to give you a refund, or do anything about the situation. If you go to Yelp and post an honest review of your experience at this restaurant, are you persecuting the restaurant? Sure, someone can be vindictive and post a dishonest review for whatever reason, but do you think that's true of *everyone* who posts on Yelp? Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. The ICC isn't persecuted; they tell folks like you that they are to discourage you from believing the testimonies of thousands of people who have been harmed by their experience with the ICC, and to lend credibility to the claim that they and they alone are Christians, God's Kingdom ("People persecute us because we're special! Just like they persecuted Jesus! We must be doing something right!").
It's perfect, really, when you think about it. Jesus was indeed persecuted, but that doesn't make being persecuted is a "mark" of a true Christian. Adherents to other religions are persecuted all over the world. Does that mean that they are *real* Christians too? Faulty logic--the ICC is full of it, in both senses of the word--but the ICC doesn't want you to use logic. They are fear-mongers. If you really believe that the only way you can truly be "saved" and spend eternity with Christ is by adhering to their church's First Principles and discipling mandate, of course you're going to buy the bill of goods they're selling. This is what they count on. The last thing they want you to know is that you can have your salvation in Christ without belonging to their church. So they use lies and fear tactics to keep you in bondage to them. I pray that you would be freed from this.
So heres the thing Chris Broom now leads the New York Church and overseas , syracuse and Dc. Since Chris Broom has come he lost the church they used to meet at because he has the church paying for his $4000 apartment. "truth be told " . So the $4000 they spent on that particular property they can no longer afford. With Steve Ranga and his wife resigning . Now Ron is leaving in June. So theres no one to lead DC and New York lost its building and Chris Broom does not know how to lead. If he had a real Job he would be FIRED. So Chris why don't you resign save everyone the trouble and money and go get a REAL JOB and stoDelete
I left the nycicc along with various other and heard they lost their buildingDelete
You are misguided in your comments about the ICOC. Several years, ago, the ICOC identified and repented of oppressive leadership methods. At that time, the ICC broke off from ICOC. The ICOC is not in agreement with the teachings of the ICC. ICOC members strive to follow Jesus' teaching about putting God first in our lives and are committed to daily repentance. The reason its members are still there is because of the call to pure living and the friendship and love among them. No one is forced to do anything. These are hallmarks of true discipleship of Jesus, according to Jesus' own words. Surely, if you are a Christian, you do not object to these teachings.ReplyDelete
And if a church didn't sign the papers the ICOC wanted them to sign, then they weren't Christians any longer and you no longer had fellowship with them. As I see it, you are still holding people to rules not found in God's word. Plain and simple.Delete
Sorry, that is incorrect. If churches didn't sign we still concider them our brothers in Christ, but their choice only limits us from benefitting from each other. Our hope is that we all are willing to work together, but we respect their choice to be autonomous.Delete
If I had a dollar for every time I heard "that might have been true, but the church changed all that bad stuff", I would be a wealthy man. After 40 years, consistently bad behavior has to be treated as more than simple mistakes, but evidence of a systemic problem that flows from poor theology, poor leadership, and a tragic lack of understanding that the core grace of the Christian religion, something that even Jesus said would be the distinguishing mark of a disciple, is love. Kip and his religion is not Christian, despite all the defensive comments here. I know these things.Delete
Dear Anon March 7th-ReplyDelete
The blog post and related comments are more about Kip McKean's new church, the International Christian Church (ICC). The few comments about the ICOC (International Church of Christ) seem to stem from experiences when Kip was leading it. It's important to point out that the oppressive and militant leadership style that were once hallmarks of the ICOC under Kip McKean is no surprise being duplicated in his new church with a younger crop of members and leaders.
Cheryl Harris Chin married to Ken Chin nyicc church . ChargedReplyDelete
Cheryl Harris Chin Leads the women in the New York ICC Church . What you don't know is that she obsession problem with other mean while being not. Not the model leader of icc movement.ReplyDelete
Charges in DetailReplyDelete
Cheryl Harris Chin
Cheryl Harris Chin Leads the women in the New York ICC Church . What you don't know is that she obsession problem with other men while being married to Ken Chin. Not the model leader of icc movement.ReplyDelete
Anonymous you seemed to be obsessed with Cheryl - you need help also.ReplyDelete
she probably eloped him too.Delete
[PDF]Order - Maryland Board of Physicians
Maryland Board of Physicians
On March 2, 2005, the Board charged Cheryl Harris-Chin, MD, a pediatrician ... family members, who were not her patients, because of her romantic obsession with the. 2 ... board regarding the conduct or qualifications of another physician.
What ICC Leaders Will Be Doing In Ten Years...ReplyDelete
The below predictions are written all in JEST because God only knows that ICC members take themselves and their leaders WAAAAYYYY too SERIOUSLY!!!
10. The entire Bartholomew clan move back to Hilo where they are literally big fish in a very, very small pond. The brothers go back to working in their dad's woodshop while their wives run a roadside shave ice stand to make ends meet.
9. Anthony and Chenelle Patterson get back together after Chenelle reveals that she never stopped loving Anthony and only married his brother, Mike, because "that was the advice..."
8. Mike doesn't take the break-up too badly as it gives him more time to dedicate to his true passions: UFO(s) and WWF. He hosts a successful podcast called, "Alien Abuductions and Their Impact Before, During, and After the Time of Jesus". As well as creates a new wrestling organization known as WACKY, Wrestlers After Christ the King Yahweh, that attempts to convert and actively recruit wrestlers out of the WWF.
7. Corey Blackwell is on his 4th marriage.
6. Both Michael and Michelle Williamson finally come out of the closet and co-lead a growing and very active out-reach church comprised of LGBT ex-icc members. Michelle preaches and Michael oversees the song service.
5. Tracey Harding still has Ron by the balls because you can always take the girl out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto outta' the gurrrrl. Ron is on his 22nd version/rewrite of Kip's biography.
4. Coltin Rohn settles for a job as a back-up cashier at Holly Lobby after several attempts to get a job as a Marriage and Family Therapist only to be told time after time that his ICCM degree is not valid. However his wife, Mandee, is elated with his career choice because of the crankin' employee discount!
Funny! "Didn't you mean Cory Blackwell's 7th marriage?" Lol! I'm sure you and I know each other IRL so please send me a PM through the "contact me" box on the right of this page if you like. Looking forward to the last three points!Delete
Regarding Coltin Rohn, I'd say he becomes the next Walter White ( Breaking Bad ) and starts his own meth lab on a RV working with Chris Chloupek as a Gus type guy with a gang. Either that or he joins up with Joel Osteen.Delete
3. Due to their extensive experience in multi-level marketing as ICC world sector leaders, Andrew and Patrique Smellie oversee a lucrative group of Amway consultants in Barbados and parts of South Africa.ReplyDelete
2. Tim Kernan enrolls in remedial English courses at the local junior college to improve his grammar skills after several Doctorate of Theology candidates (from LEGITIMATE universities) find "Dr." Kernan's blog and not only debunk his ICC rhetoric but calls him out on his poor writing ability.
1. After three failed attempts at world domination, Kip McKean launches his fourth movement known as ISSUCC, Super Sold Out Undefeated Christian Church and reinstates DJ Comisford as an evangelist and world sector leader.
Again, the above predictions are all tongue and cheek! Thank you, Ed. for your blog...and yes, it's very possible that Cory will be on his 7th marriage but I wanted to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
These predictions are HILARIOUS!ReplyDelete
You Know You're A Member of Kip McKean's Sold Out Movement When:ReplyDelete
10. You're not permitted to wear swim suits, ride alone in a car with the opposite sex, go on solo dates and must look away during kissing scenes on tv/movie "to protect your purity". Yet, there are no shortage of sisters who show up for church in skin tight clothing, wearing hooker heels with hair/make-up all done in a way that would rival any hard working stripper.
9. You're told that you must IMITATE, OBEY and SUBMIT to the authority of your 22 year-old church leader who barely had enough credits to graduate high school, never had a job other than his stint as a bus boy at Frosty Freeze and brags during every sermon that he has a degree from the church's unaccredited school the ICCM. Meanwhile his wife (the women's ministry leader) still reads Teen Vogue and is obsessed with taking selfies.
8. Every Good News E-Mail is inundated with pictures of Kip, Elena and other ICC Leaders traveling the globe (in style) visiting places like London, Paris, Spain, Australia, Hawaii, Chile, etc. While you're struggling to pay the rent/bills, living off of top ramen and can barely afford the gas to shuffle your 6 roommates to and from church events because you are constantly brow beaten to "sacrifice" so as to fund these vacations, ahem, I mean "missionary" trips.
This is great! Please finish the rest of the points and I will publish it as a separate post!Delete
OHHHHHHHHH no you did go there. Well Said. Or should i say SAD. Its really a-shame that the members don't get it. Until its too late. They ignore every inclination that there is something wrong , because they feel guilty thinking they will go to hell, Or if they even speak up they will get marked. Its truly sad the jim jones affect , Kip Mckean has on people. His most lawyer leaders um cult leaders . Chris Broom , Ken Chin, Mike Odonnell , Ron Harding, Andrew Smellie, and the list goes on. I heard there is an ongoing investigation happening that may involve government officials . Who knows!ReplyDelete
Hey Chris Broom Tell everyone the truth about your PORN addiction .ReplyDelete
How many of Kip's yes-men have daddy issues? I know Ron Harding does. His dad was in the ICC/ICOC for a hot minute then "fell away." Smart man.ReplyDelete
You Know You're A Member of Kip McKean's Sold-Out Movement cont.:ReplyDelete
7. ICC leaders convince wives that it is their "COTTON PICKIN' DUTY" to financially support their husbands (and family) so hubbies can devote all of their time and energy to Kip's church slaving away as UNPAID staff members/interns.
6. Elena McKean hasn't served a day in her life in children's ministry because "that isn't her role."
5. ICC leaders require that everyone wear their M.E.R.C.Y. t-shirts (Maximizing Efforts for Relief Care and Youth- the "supposedly" charitable arm of the church) to collect donations. Yet the money raised is not used to help the poor and needy but instead to pay for people's GLC/Jubilee registration and/or to meet the church's Special Mission's goal.
4. Five people are baptized on Sunday, four are struggling by Wednesday and one is barely faithful by Friday yet the evangelist enthusiastically claims that his region had a CRANKIN' week at the staff meeting.
3. The A.M.S. Ministry stands for Arts, Media and Sin.
Is this the same author as the 8-10? Please take your time so they are all as good as it started (but thank you and keep up the great comments!) BTW ICC staff wives are paid - Kip makes big deal about this. It is the unpaid couples who slave away, sacrificing their own families and financial well-being so that the paid staff can live comfy. Being the wife of someone on staff actually seems pretty easy - illustrated by the double standard of Elena (and every other evangelist's wife I have ever seen) never serving in children's ministry.Delete
Keep up the good work exicc :-) I've decided to put up another blog warning people about the evils of this wicked greedy cult icccult.blogspot.com we won't quit till the war against cults is won. icccult.blogspot.com It would be nice to know your story a bit more regarding how you were first recruited and indoctrinated. I feel that by making students and people aware of what to look out for we could make their recruitment process less effective and hence less victims for Kip to con money from.ReplyDelete
You Know You're A Member of the ICC cont:ReplyDelete
2. When words like CRANKIN', EPIC and HISTORIC is used to describe E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G that Kip does right down to making himself a bologna sandwich.
1. When Kip's newly appointed WSL(s) can barely locate the books in the New Testament let alone where to find their assigned "world sector" on a map (ain't that right "Joanie B" and "Jee B"?).
Thanks for the contributions! Here's a link to the collected post:Delete
So You Want To Be an ICC Evangelist/Women's Ministry Leader, Huh? Have fun with the below requirements:ReplyDelete
10. You must be a relatively new convert (3-4 years max)
09. You must not be physically older than 22 years old
08. In lieu of #9 and #10, you can be spiritually and physically older BUT you MUST have been divorced and/or fathered children outside of marriage
07. Never been gainfully employed OR (see #6)
06. Past work experience as a Starbuck's barista, juice bar attendant, or a Dairy Queen cashier is acceptable
05. Be lame enough to claim that you attended Kip's fantasy college, the ICCM, before he even started it. For the record, the ICCM began in 2012 yet several evangelists/women's ministry leaders like Chenelle Patterson, Jared McGee and Ron Harding assert they attended years prior to the school's actual inception. Perhaps to give the impression that they graduated from a 4-year college which the ICCM is NOT!!! According to their Facebook page, Chenelle claims she attended from 2009-2013, Jared 2007-2013 and Ron 2006-2013
04. Be OK with spinning the truth or what non-ICC members call lying. Refer back to #5 for an example
Im with the Gainesville ICC. The comments here are acurate and interesting testimoniesReplyDelete
As a concerned parent of college student at CSUF, anyone have information for me to show my child that the City of Angels ICOC- OC region is teaching falsely, liars, evil people, and certainly a cult. I'm at that point where my child is defensive. Please help.ReplyDelete
Are you saying the City of Angels OC region or LAICC OC region is a cult? 2 different churchesDelete
If your son wants to join a Christian group, lookup intervarsity at csuf. They are a great group that have so much fun andn fellowship. They're a college ministry not affiliated with a specific church. I know the guys at intervarsity csuf, they are great people there. He'll love it.Delete
Remind your son that the "founding leader" (Kip) has been kicked out of several churches that he was instrumental in founding, only to start another, then another, and soon, another. That's a pretty bad track record. We must all remember what L. Ron Hubbard (author of "Dianetics and charlatan of the worst order) said, "If you want to get rich, start a religion". Sound familiar?Delete
Anonymous - June 1:ReplyDelete
There are many former members and others at this forum who can share their experiences and offer advice as to how to communicate with your child:
In a recent post on the forum about how to help loved ones, these two links were shared:
Best to you and your family.
I'm amazed that I stumbled upon this. I've been in ICC for a few years now & have never been more confused and self doubting in my life. I have no idea what to believe or which way to go for an unbiased opinion :/ I just need God to tell me if I should be running out the door or not, why meeee!ReplyDelete
From someone who was in Kip's previous movement for 20 years - I recommend that you run out the door as fast as you can.Delete
The problem with the ICC is not only with their faulty theology - but also with the fact that Kip is a narcissist and hypocrite who has been warned countless times over the decades by longtime friends, and yet refuses to listen or to be accountable to anyone. Is that someone you want as a spiritual leader?
I am a parent of a Freshman College Student in Costa Mesa CA. I came across this Blog in search of reviews of the City Of Angels International Christian Church and all I can say is WOW! My gut feeling was correct. We are Christians who not faithfully attend Calvary Chapel. I was Glad at first that my daughter had found a good group of young people who believed in Christ.She has had a few bible studies and attended a Church Service and a baptism. Just earlier this week they asked her if they could come to our home for a Bible Study, which is why I decided to get more info on this church before allowing them to come over. The one thing she pointed out was how they pushed on giving $$$. Thankfully my daughter just recently started going and have showed her all these reviews. Thank you so much for all this info and so glad i found this before any deeper involvement.ReplyDelete
Im just a bit confused ...are the ICC and ICOC and this City of Angels ICC all the same?
That last question is kind of complicated. It depends on who you ask.Delete
There are some people who consider both organizations to be a cult.
Kip used to lead the ICOC so at one time it was just as abusive and corrupt as the ICC now is.
After Kip was kicked out of leadership many ICOC churches got rid of Kip McKean’s abusive policies, so ICOC sympathizers would say that the ICOC has repented of its past abusive ways that were established by Kip.
Others are still critical of the ICOC because it teaches baptism for the forgiveness of sins and it teaches that people who are not baptized did not have their sins forgiven and therefore have not yet obtained salvation. So others still consider the ICOC to be a cult for this reason.
Many people who flee from the abuse of the ICC end up going to the ICOC because the doctrine is similar (minus the ICC’s “one man holding all the power - central leadership” brainwashing) but without the intense manipulation and coercion for money that ICC members are subjected to.
The Bible teaches in many places that people who aren't baptized into Christ, believe, repent, and confess are missing the grace of God and are unforgiven. Argue with God about that.Delete
I was in the church for 8 years,and was terrified when I left. I was groomed for leadership, my whole life revolved around ICC, as someone in leadership I did recognize the double standards that others not in leadership were held accountable to. I was totally brainwashed and mentally/emotionally abused. Indeed I did learn a lot about the Bible, but my whole being was terrorized. I am so glad I had the strength to leave and will NEVER go back. This "Church" is damaging and just evil.ReplyDelete
Are people still reading these comments? I was in the the ICC church from 2006-2014. I was meet on a college campus, was "love bombed", all the cult tactics. There are so many truthful comments on this site.ReplyDelete
I was honestly lucky I finally escaped. My best friend left in 2013 and she really helped give me the courage to stand up and leave. I'm in counseling after all the emotiomal abuse I endured.
I have a question for ex members, how did you start to believe God loved you again? After leaving I can still be plagued with feeling like I'm not fruitful enough or not doing enough so I'm not going to heaven. That cult really beat all us young people down.
I haven't so far. It's been almost 20 years since I left. (1991-1995). I had just gotten out of active duty and was at the U of MN, totally alone, confused, and nervous about college. A nice guy invited me to a Bible talk and I was in a group of about 50 college kids and I felt love, acceptance, and friendship for the first time in about a year. But after 4 years when I was getting ready to graduate, A 20 year old bible group leader told me (during a group date of 4 people going to a park to walk around, what fun!!!!) I had to get out of the military and also not go into law enforcement and that being a police officer was an ungodly job because "what if I had to shoot someone who wasn't saved in the church and I caused them to go to hell". I told him the Bible said "Blessed are the peacemakers" and that I was going to be a peacemaker and protect children and help victims and keep people safe and not shoot them. He said it didn't matter, and I was being selfish and stubborn to his advice and I was being prideful. I left the next week and never looked back.Delete
I kept all of my journals from those 4 years. They fill a rather large box. I look back at my "quiet times" and prayers, and I can't believe I was ever that person and that I was so naïve. Whenever I go into the attic and look at them,--the desolation, destruction, inadequate feelings, sorrow, pain, and suffering that were part of every page because I didn't have a "visitor" or I wasn't "fruitful" or I had doubts and couldn't force myself to be sold out (after all, I was still a Soldier) make me cry. I just wish I could go back to that girl and give her a hug and tell her to RUN. I feel SO STUPID for all of the money I spent, the abuse I let myself suffer, and the brainwashing I made myself go through--all for "God" and that stupid church.
But honestly I am walking around in the dry, arid, desert and still haven't found what I am looking for. Even though I know it was a cult and I was taken advantage of, I still think about that damn church at least every month or so when I get in my contemplative phases and think about all of my regrets. I do go to a nice church right now, but I can't fully commit because I am still so scarred by the Minneapolis Church of Christ and what I allowed those college kids and leaders to do to me. I can only hope that God will be patient with me and I will at some point, find a way back to him.
It's DISGUSTING that Kip is doing the exact same thing and that people think that lipstick on that pig makes it anything other than a pig wearing lipstick.
Kip left the ICOC after Henry K letter was exposed. I was baptized 1996 during my campus days, I got married to my bestfriend and lots of bestfriends in the church. This happened before Kip left (or expelled). The church now have much freedom, more than ever, but we all know there's no such thing as absolute freedom for we are all accountable to God (if we still believe in God). Me and and my family are still in the church after the dust and smoke have been cleared. But Kip is still around, trying to snatch people and sometimes the whole church under his arm. The time they planted church here in Manila calling the "remnant" they succeeded to get some struggling bros and sisters to join their flock. _Rick from PhilippinesDelete
One thing I have noticed, Everyone enters the church with issues and you can't hide from them forever. How come the church hides certain sin from people dating? Shouldn't you know prior to getting engaged that your boyfriend has only been with men, etc (whatever the sin)? I dated a brother who I found out after we broke up struggled with homosexuality, we had talked about getting married. 3 years later he has left the church and has fully embraced the gay lifestyle. One of my close friends didn't find out her fiancé struggled with homosexuality till premarital counseling. These situations concern me. I'm not saying people can't repent but I know another leader in the ICC whose husband left her to purposes a hay life style. It seems like sometimes ICC pushes women to be okay with marrying gay or bisexual men.ReplyDelete
I need some closure I was a member in 2000 to 2001 so I left right before all the drama with Kip. What happened why did his child fall away? What was his son that made him leave?ReplyDelete
She left for college and started making her own decisions about God. Kip kept trying to control the situation and even opened a ministry out there to try and wrangle her in. None of it worked.ReplyDelete
Its not Fall Away ... it's walking away
Hello all! Thought I'd leave a comment. I myself am a Christian, non-denominational. A few people at my college invited me to a Bible study and I thought it would be a great way for me to connect and bond with others who have the same faith as me, especially on a big college campus where it's easy to get lost in the mix.ReplyDelete
Anyway, to cut to the chase, it turns out those leading the study were from ICC. They said some things that I knew were wrong based upon my previous study of the Bible and what is accurate according to Hebraic context. I was told to my face that I am not a Christian because I am not perfect, essentially. Because I have not sacrificed everything and haven't totally stopped sinning. As a Christian, I do believe it's important to witness to others, to love others, to help others, and to give up worldly things and stop sinning. However, that being said, I believe God forgives us of our sins and we don't have to be perfect first in order for that to happen. I believe God also intends for us to enjoy the life we're given and I believe He gives us different dreams and goals to use us in different ways. Just because I want to have a career and am imperfect, I don't think that makes me any less a Christian. I asked the person speaking to me how they were able to stop sinning and was given a beat-around-the-bush-no-answer. Anyway, verses were then repeated back to me and I was asked whether or not I was a Christian according to those verses. I didn't say anything, because based upon one verse they were using, I am in fact imperfect and therefore, to that standard, could not be a Christian. I felt so completely intimidated and humiliated. I eventually said no after what seemed like a minute long pause, but I also know in my heart it wasn't true. I felt guilty immediately after and almost felt as though I was denouncing my faith. The pressure I felt in that moment was excruciating but in a way I'm thankful because this experience has made me stronger; as a person and in my faith as well. I've been praying and asking friends for advice, which has helped too. I'm so thankful for the person who started this page because even though I've been a Christian for several years now and I've been studying the Bible some, I'm not as knowledgeable as I could be and I did find myself having doubts in that moment about whether or not I actually could call myself a Christian.
I 100% don't believe the people involved with that study or people who go to ICC are bad people or even bad Christians for that matter. I think they've been sadly misled without full context (or with misconstrued context) of the Scriptures and they're in my thoughts and prayers.
Sorry for rambling on so much, but it's a shame that people do things invoking the name of Christ when what they're teaching isn't His truth.
GABE REED FORMER EVANGELIST LEAVES THE ICC CHURCH AND EXPOSED THEM FOR ALL THEIR SCHEMES READ ALL THE ACCOUNTS https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2e5slY-B8ZiZENxX1pqUzRNOE0/viewReplyDelete
I Dont know what to do. I left a man because the church told me to. Now i lost him and now i realized i made a mistake. What should i do ?ReplyDelete
Realize you still idol him and repent. God isn't a God of confusion. If you think you are ready for a relationship with this heart, you are confused and it is not a message from the "redeemer."Delete
I am in my seventies having been converted to Christ over forty years ago. I have experienced much in my Christian life including having been touched by the ICOC many years ago. I believe with all my heart that Satan loves false religion. Most people do believe there is a creator so if he can deceive them into an entrapment of teachings that include some truth, he can damage them and perhaps discourage them from ever seeking after Jesus again. Please consider that Satan is part of the test we are all here taking and God in heaven allows it. Don't let a Kip Mckean rob you of an opportunity for a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ and eternal life.Seek the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who will help us and lead us in our study of God's word and proper knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.ReplyDelete
Kip Mckean always preyed on younger people as they are generally speaking more naive and inexperienced with life.
Bottom line is that do not let Satan via Kip Mckean discourage you from seeking Jesus who is the way, the truth, and the life. Stay humble and penitent surrendering your life to Jesus who will take your life and save you. Luke 9:24, Gal 2:20.
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
There are so many of them at CSUF T__T. I can't believe I was almost tricked by them. I went to a couple of bible studies with them and when they taught me about what a discipe and how christian=disciple=saved and cornered me into saying that I was not saved....tears flowed out of my eyes and I didn't even know why I cried at that moment. Only a few days later do I realize that the Holy Spirit had saved me from this false teaching T___T God is good! But anyways, even though I never became a part of their church, I was still emotionally wounded. After that dumb disciple study, I told God how much I hated Him. For about a week or two I was depress and moody. I was really convinced that I had to get rebaptized to be saved. I guess no matter how long you've been with the Lord, it's actually pretty easy to be manipulated by them. Anyways though, I started to cry out to and question God about baptism and learned that it was not necesarry to get rebaptized :). In addition, a church friend of mine who goes to CSUF as well also did bible study with them, and good thing he also realized how false their teaching was.ReplyDelete
In addition to that, I actually confronted one of the bible study leaders and told them that the gospel they preach of is false. And of course....they have that I'm brainwashed response..."you're persecuting us" -_____-. When I tried to tell them that salvation is by faith alone they keep throwing at me the same bible verses that they take out of context! Obviously those verses are talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit......And when they told me to read one of the verses (that they believed supported baptisimal regeneration), I read it to them in the NLT version hahahahaah and they freaked out because it didn't have the exact meaning as the NIV version. I told them that they should read the other versions too and she faintly replied with "okay, I'll study those too"...yeah right lol. And ughhh I hate it when they say that we are taking a verse out of context when they are the one who do that.Whenever I show them a verse that salvation is by faith alone...they would say, "you're not considering the whole context. Paul was talking to the church, and they're believers already so they were baptized already." But anyways sometimes I feel like these people really love God but how can they love Him and yet say the most heart-wrenching things?! They told me to my face that I was NOT SAVED. That I need to hurry since I was NOT SAVED. It clearly says in the bible that you're not to judge a person's destination. Since you're making the cross of Christ of no effect by saying that. They also started to persuade me that there's something wrong with my church -___- since I didn't know what being a disciple is.....and when I cried they said, "I know it hurts, it's a cut to the heart" oh pleaseee you don't know what you're talking about.Delete
For those of you who were former members, did you really have a relationship with God when you were a part of that church? And did you think you would have been saved if you were still a member there?
Sorry for the longgggg comment but in conclusion I just wanted to encourage all of you to pray for them. Their eyes are blinded and they do not know what they do. Please sincerely pray for them. Actually they have been on my mind since the day I found out that they were false teachers. Occassionaly I searched for webs like this to learn more about them..I guess I'm a bit obsessed with knowing more about them. But I've come to a conclusion that learning more about them won't do anything, but that prayer can make a difference. So let's pray for them guys :).
Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I don't care if you are part of the doc, ccc, icc, icoc, or whatever, if you aren't baptized as a disciple for the forgiveness of your sin AFTER repenting and raised by faith through the very power that raised Christ then you aren't saved.Delete
You seem so wrapped up in defending your own salvation that satan used your pride against you and you bought it.
Post your email publicly so we can talk if you wish. Since I can speak and read Greek, I'll do better than the NLT or NIV or whatever version you prefer by simply using Codecs.
Sorry Anon. above....you are wrong. You must be another ICC automaton on cruise control. IT is Christ that saves. Don't believe it? Here it is:Delete
"Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Today, not in three days, but today. The other way that God gave Christ life is that he raised his body from the dead, and transformed it into a "spiritual body" - a new kind of body without the limitation of the old "flesh" - a body suited for the spiritual realm that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit (1 Corinthians 15:50). So God gave a mighty YES to Christ's substitution by raising him from the dead.
Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?
The bible should be studied contextually (each verse and how it is tied in to others) and in historical context. These ICC fools infantilize people and purposely make them 'deed' their way to salvation so that people become more dependent on them.
Luke 17:2King James Version (KJV)
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
You're incorrectly twisting the above scriptures. The only time "faith" and "alone" are used together are in JM 2:24- we are NOT saved by faith alone. Stop believing what the masses teach, which is just human tradition. You must make a decision to follow this; no one else can force you to do it.Delete
I just started going to icc..and left because of this exact same things a member of the church said I was a terrible mom and had a prideful heart whenever I defended my kids or myself..it got so bad I had to tell her to leave my house she replied that there is a deaper darker hell for me and that me and my kids where headed thereReplyDelete
I find it highly doubtful this is the FULL context of your conversation. This seems grossly one-sided. Just the heart behind this post is prideful. Why even post something like this vs follow scripture in Matthew 18 and get unified? RepentDelete
I agree, 99% of these posts are merely slander. And those that are not are misinformed. The bible teaches to disfellowship those who will not give up their sin. It is not something Kip just made up. Go read your bible for the truth. Be a berean. There is a reason that the church gets perecuted to the point of slander. Satan wants to take out any person he can by posts from those who fell away from the truth. Sorry, just repent and God will forgive you. You want to make Kip and the church look bad because your heart is bad. The nature of these posts are to destroy true relationships with God... Sad, just stop reading.Delete
Anon..I will ask you what Pontius Pilate asked Christ...'What Is Truth'? Obviously, truth is not exploitation of youth and brainwashing, or isolation of scriptures to twist biblical meaning, truth is Christ not 'Crooked' Kip McKean, etc. Where did the disciples become exclusive to one discipler in the Bible?Delete
Discipleship Definition – Changing from the inside
The important distinction with Christian discipleship is that we are not only called to learn the teachings of Jesus Christ, we are also called to live them. A disciple who bases his or her life on the teachings of Christ “like a person building a house, who dug a deep hole to lay the foundation on rock” (Luke 6:48). When we make our initial declaration of faith and ask Christ to be our Savior, He will begin changing us from the inside, giving us the ability to understand His word and the desire to live it.
This change happens in many ways. Here are a few examples of how God changes us from the inside, not from having a person Lord it over you as Kip's croneys do:
As we read God’s Word, we learn about Jesus and how He lived. We begin to understand what it means to be like Jesus. We learn to put Him first in all things (Mark 8:34-38).
We become equipped to listen to the Holy Spirit, who lives within us. He helps us resist temptation and overcome trials (Ephesians 6:10-18).
We learn how to examine our thoughts, actions, and words—always comparing them with Scripture. We want to be doers of the Word, and not hearers only (James 1:22).
We begin to understand what it means to “abide in Christ.” As we abide, the Holy Spirit produces fruit in our lives—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These aren’t things we can conjure up on our own. They are produces by the Holy Spirit—a change from the inside out (Galatians 5:22-23).
We start loving other people through action (John 13:35).
We long to share our faith with others and tell unbelievers about the changes Jesus has made in our lives (1 Peter 3:15).
The change is from the inside out, God in our hearts and outward tranformation...not by manipulation, fear, guilt, etc.
Shame on you all.
London International Christian Church - about and to Michael Williamson:ReplyDelete
Michael Williamson is a Kip worshipper it is so disgusting. From the pulpit he does nothing basically screech commands about "making disciples" it doesn't matter the problem you're facing, the sermon he's preaching the solution is "MAKE DISCIPLES!" His sermons don't even make sense anymore and it is felt among the fellowship as barely anyone will take notes outside of writing the title of his newest sermon.
Hint - talking loud doesn't make what you are saying anymore effective or biblical.
Michael is extremely prideful, it is evident in his 10000 anecdotal stories about himself and being "abandoned at the age of 14". Pride is a sin - yet he has not repented of it in years and does not look like he is about to start.
His sermons last so long are just the endless rantings of a prideful man who loves to hear his own voice.
In the London International Christian Church, you cannot voice any of your concerns or reservations. You are automatically wrong and they are always right.
Michael Williamson, acts like he moved to a third world country and graced us with his presence. This is Great Britain Michael, if moving to one of the greatest cities in the world, living in North London and buying sandwiches at Marks and Spencers is an act of charity and "giving up everything", then up is down and black is white.
There's a reason the London International Christian Church is not "fruitful" God has blocked it! He will NOT be mocked. Michael can launch as many blitz as he wants. Guess what? Half the church doesn't believe a word coming out of your mouth anymore. Sure, for International Day and Women's Day the crowds will come but ONLY for that day. The church is sick, tired and drained of it as is spitting you out of their mouth! The way God already has.
For every convert you have to sweat bullets to get to impress Kip McKean, you have three fall away and four members who are there in the physical but are NO LONGER there mentally. They are all tapped out and are not you soldiers to make disciples.
You have zero impact on university campuses. ZERO. It brings me immense joy to know this generation will not be fooled by you! They will not be brainwashed, peer pressured and bullied into giving up their lives not for God but for you and your Kip loving obsession to evangelize the world in this generation. Where are you university students Michael? Where are they? Can't you even baptize someone from the Universities of London? I swear you've had "bible talks" on those campuses forever. Where's the fruit Michael? The campus disciples are sick of being your slaves! Your obscure campus bible talk are nothing. God is not in them.
You don't trust God, Michael and God is NOT WITH YOU. It's evidenced by the fact you cannot even make a disciple yourself. Stop claiming "fruit" that isn't yours. I hate to break it to you sir but it's been donkeys years since you were "fruitful" and EVERY SINGLE PERSON KNOWS IT. The church knows it and every time you spout about making disciples they roll their eyes because you are one to talk. Where's your fruit, Michael? Nowhere. You've been cut off the vine. Snip. Snip.
Big hat, no cattle!
Anyone want any updates or information on the London International Christian Church? Ask me. I know it all.
I can't even call Michael Williamson a narcissist because that involves some forms of intelligence like Kip.
Michael Williamson is Kip McKean's monkey.
He will dance, clap and throw his feces at Kip's command.
But hey, let's give him a banana because is such a well trained monkey!
Acts 5:38-39-------"So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”Delete
he looks like a uncle tom. his facebook profile makes him look lighter than he really is. maybe he can get the same surgery as michael jackson and sammy sosa when fundraising fot special missions come around. roflDelete
Regarding Mike Williamson and the London Church....Delete
Can you share about why George Grima and other older/mature disciples left and what brought about that decision? There are about 20 or so that moved over to the ICOC this year beginning in about Juky/August or so.
Kip said in his last sermon he was 195. I'm not really all concerned with his body composition but for a man that is at least 6'0 - 6'1 that seems ok to me since he is in his 60's.ReplyDelete
how to get out from them? First I study bible with them and everything was fine until they teach me the false doctrine about other church and I feel uncomfortable about it. I am about getting baptized. How to run?ReplyDelete
^ do you still need questions answered about this? If so, post your email.Delete
IMON AHMED WUZ HEREReplyDelete
I was with the church from 1988 to 1991 and want to share some things. The #1 point here is what happened to me. I could not handle school and the demanding time the church wants of me and ended up flunking out of college. it was also a numbers game. You were expected to bring a lot of people to church and bible study to the point it was not at all heartfelt to help someone find god. It was all about how many people you brought to church. we were forever stopping strangers at random inviting them to church. I developed a reputation. People in my dorm whispered and talked behind my back. When ever I would make a friend there was always someone telling them that I was a cult girl and to stay away. They controlled every second of my life to where i lived, who my roommates were and who I could talk to. If someone left the church we were often instructed to avoid and chastise them. To cut off ties. I wanted to leave the church but had no friends outside the church so when I did leave it ushered a period of time for me when I was completely alone, no friends, no one to talk to and my family already disowned me because of the church. One of the most traumatic things to have happened to me was that since I was obese and did not looses weight as instructed they had an intervention where they would embarrass me in front of 30 or more people. They would take turns telling me how no one will love me or want to marry me because of my weight. I am 47 now and my life was totally ruined by the church. I have not stepped foot in a church for over 20 years. I do not know whats right or wrong on religion and simply can not trust it again. The church destroyed my self esteem. I went into depression and became suicidal. I am still on antidepressants to just get threw my day. I have heard Kip is no longer the leader and the church reformed. One thing good I can say from all of this is I reconnected with old friends that also left the church. I was part of the Kansas City Church of ChristReplyDelete
So sorry for what happened to you and the horrible pain you have endured. Jesus loves you and he has no part of cults. His love never fails even when cults blaspheme his name. Seek him for he is the one true light and he will heal you of the pain and depression the ICC has caused you. I will be praying for you to get thru all this. 🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤Delete
When i was at arsenal, i used to dab.ReplyDelete
Is this a porn website for bitter fall aways?? What a bunch of cowards and losers. Get a life...ReplyDelete
Stop being a jerk!Delete
Hello Anonymus you do not understand. This is what this church is all about. It doesnt care about peoples feeling at all. Jesus cared. He wept over peoples losses. He touched the wounded and healed them. He did not shy away from their pain and their insecurities. This is something the church doesnt understand because it is so lacking the very heart of Christ. It is only about numbers and and not people with their real life stories and warts and all. I ve been depressed and even suicidal in this church I can attest to the damage these people can do. I have been a member of the Paris church of Christ, a church that crumbled to pieces. I have been a member of the Dublin COC a church that almost crumbled to pieces. My flatmate killed himself being a member of this church HAVING NO IDEA ABOUT THE MERCY AND GRACE OF CHRIST. You HAVE no CLUE. You calling people losers is very insulting. By your very words you are being judged, too.Delete
My best friend tried to kill himself once, but God used me to stop him. No one should ever ridicule someone who is suicidal. I appreciate deep feelings, which are sometimes deeply dark. I can't tolerate apathy and indifference nearly so well. Don't ever give up-(MT 24:13). The only scripture I remember my mother (who died 4 months ago) teaching me as a child was RO 5:1-5 (written to Christians). I'm glad you didn't kill yourself!Delete
Anon #1: Your speech is indicative of a fallaway of the heart, but not the body. Repent. It's okay to judge within the church (or those who claim to be within the church) but you can't be unloving. YOU are unloving which is a salvation level issue. --> 2 timDelete
Anon 2 & 3: I'm sorry you have gone through such things. Just remember, because flawed humans makeup the body of Christ, it is imperfect in action but perfect in the Spirit. Just realize this, IF those people who sinned against you are still faithful come judgment day, they repented of those sins and are forgiven. That being the case, you aught to "always hope" in love that they did. I encourage you to pray for your "enemies" in this instance. Even though your experience may have been poor, not all are immature in Christ, but anyone in Christ is family.
I would encourage you to seek out a local branch and see if anything has changed/matured.
Much love stranger.
I have been in ICC for more than 4 years. I do not see any of these negative things written about ICC. ICC has cared me to live a righteous life. The church disciplins when I am wrong wit the wOrd of God. The church teaches me to obey what the Lord had commanded. The church has rebuked me when I am off track. The church has trained me (once a drug addict/ sexually immoral) to be a servant of Jesus Christ.ReplyDelete
I am not ashamed to share that I was a big time sinner.
ICC has helped me to be a man first and then serve God in God's term and not in my term.
If you do not want to be discipled or corrected then you will feel ICC is bad.
ICC is awesome and it has groomed me to a good servant of the Living God.
I am smart enough. I was a big time cheat and crooked professional/ manuplated many officers for my benefits. I have the ability to figure out who is a crooked and a cheat.
I have met Kip personally. He is a good and humble servant of God.
Pray to God that he gives you all a repenting heart.
God is in control.
@MyClicks: Right? It's sad how every time I see blogs like this, it's all distorted, half-truth, sentimental, lukewarm people congregating to slander. As someone who has ties with all 3 movements, and majority of you involved, you need to repent. Not ONCE in all my years have I seen someone step away in complete righteousness. They always have some huge looming sin overhead. AlwaysDelete
This may be another thing to add for parents concerned about their child's involvement in the church: My family started going to CAICC in Long Beach for a couple months, my husband and I both had been baptized in ICOC and were not aware of the differences in the churches until it was very apparent they had developed their own doctrine not always aligned with the Bible. My step-daughter had hung out and studied a couple times with the teen girls, so when we decided to leave the church she confessed to us that the disciples were trying to persuade her to get emancipated so she could live with them in their house. A 16 year old girl does not need to be living with other teenage girls, she needs to live with us - her parents! They continued to reach out to her even though she let them know we would not allow her to contact them, to which they suggested emancipation again! Finally after 6 months, she hasn't heard from them. Parents, talk to your kids about their studies, what are they reading and learning, stay involved!ReplyDelete
BGong, To be honest that is an extremely radical idea for someone to attempt to persuade a teen to do.ReplyDelete
While I am trying to see things from your position, I have to ask myself, "What nonsense are these parents trying to convince this teen of that they would suggest essentially a legal-runaway scenario? How lukewarm are these parents that this would even need to be suggested?"
I would be all for such a radical action if the situation deemed worthy but I don't know you so I can't make such a call. Jesus suggested things much crazier than leaving home early for a better example of how to live.
Also, what do you mean by "developed their own doctrine?" I know the LB church Evangelist. That man is as hard-line as it gets. I'm thinking by this initial message you simply are misunderstanding things vs. have found sin.
I was fortunately in the Melbourne International Church of Christ (Australia) for 1 year when I was 19 before I got out and never looked back. I am an orphan, and was seeking God, and not raised with a Christian background so I was entrapped by Satan in a church that appeared godly but denies the power of God.
The bottom line is this - in this false religious system, you don't have a relationship with Jesus, you have a relationship with a Church. If your relationship is with a Church and not with God, then you are in a cult. This church tells people what to do, where to live, if they can go on holiday, and who to date and marry? What other church does that? Not one lead by the Holy Spirit but by man. Thankfully by the Grace of God, I left the church (all of my own) but God was faithful and I have been with the evangelical movement all that time, and I am now 44. Thank you Jesus for getting me out, I count my blessings and have not regretted it for one moment - my salvation is from the Lord not from this satanic cult!
Can I be completely honest for a moment? It seems like you failed to develop the humility the Bible demands of a disciple. You actually seem super self-focused hence why you fail to see the sin and hypocrisy of you calling out a discipling church for situationally appropriate advice. You feel controlled because you aren't humble.Delete
You feel challenged when it is suggested to gather a "multitude of advisers" on topics such as dating, marriage, living, etc then "submit out of reverence for Christ" because you don't trust that the "overseer God appointed in your life" was truly placed by God in your "determined" time and place of existence.
In short, you sound low in faith.
Is this the same cult that is based in Irvine on Michelson Drive?Delete
This isn't a cult, it's just a strict restorationist church. They get a bad rap because Christianity is lukewarm in America and grossly redefined away from the Bible.Delete
And no, I googled. They have no church at that location.
they used to meet behind the bowling alley on Michelson in IrvineDelete
There are so many lenders in the world who gives church loan for struggling churches to overcome their financial problems at a low interest.church loan for struggling churchesReplyDelete
That's true by the by.Actually, finding lender for church loan for struggling churches a complete church lender's directory plays a crucial role.ReplyDelete
LOL , I know this is spam but it might be misunderstood.ReplyDelete
The church is doing fine fiscally. So long as disciples recognize that Jesus is the High Priest of Melchizedek, we will sacrifice trivial monetary means in exchange for success evangelizing world wide.
And that goes for ALL true churches in affiliated or not, worldwide.Delete
I was a member of the Discipling Church of Christ in San Diego, CA in 1989. Yes, this was a controlling cult which attempted to govern every aspect of members' lives including how much sleep you can get, how you spend your time and money, who to date, family life and very personal aspects of life.ReplyDelete
McKean never disclosed the church's financial statements - at least not to me after I requested a copy from my zone leader. The CoC deliberately kept their members in the dark yet demanded full obedience and submission to the leaders.
The apostle Paul had to approach Peter on his hypocrisy yet McKean must think he is better than Peter. We members were never provided the contact information for the church leaders and headquarters.
My house curch leader knowingly injured me on more than one occasion when I questioned his authority. Finally I had enough and left the cult but I will never forget that leader.
^ It's unfortunate you were hurt brother. May I encourage you with something? Do not let humans or even a group of humans allow a continual feeling in your heart. I would gladly meet up with you to discuss these matters. I am curious, where do you attend service now? I ask because it is extremely rare to meet a person who left the CoC, Icoc, or BAcc or ICC and actually left on good terms with God.ReplyDelete
I'm NOT saying at all this is the case with you, but majority of people who feel "controlled" by discipleship and submission to leaders typically have a salvation issue in their heart (ie: discord fueled by pride)
When I see leaders of the Icc leave like Gabe Reed or Vic G jr , their sin is readily apparent for all to see and the only people who believe or follow them are those who are like-minded in that sin.
On the other hand, I do see righteous men like Blaise Feumba, Michael Williamson & John Causey leaving the Icoc to be part of the church they were once baptized in.
I encourage you to contact John Causey in LA. He has openly extended an invite to ANYONE who is open to bridge the gap in their heart to see if the ICC, Kip and the new movement is truly different.
Being someone who has seen first hand, ALL 3 movements, I can soundly and confidently state it is.
ps- The ICC is completely open with their finances. I found that impressive but when I saw the humility behind the evangelist salaries, I was dumbfounded. Truly a new page has been turned under this leadership.
The evidence is clear in the world and scripture: "Produce fruit by keeping with repentance." ---> the icc is 10 years old, with nearly 80 churches. Their fallaway rate is the norm for the more strict restorationist Biblical standards yet they continue to forcefully advance. Truly inspiring.
Be well my friend.
I see Kip and his "movement" are still up to their old tricks. Doesn't sound like Kip ever truly repented of his arrogance and pride. Just recycling the same old tired injuries and wounds that he's been for the last fourty years and perpetrating his grief upon a whole new generation of victims. Jesus said a tree is known by its fruit. Just look at the fruit that Kip and his movement has produced. Its horrible and bad.ReplyDelete
Anon August 3, 2017 at 2:24 PM,ReplyDelete
When you say Gabe Reed & Victor Gonzalez jr left due to sin, does questioning obedience to the scriptures & leaders equate sin? So you're telling me if I were to question something that was preached or said then I'm in sin also? I thought humility was a characteristic of a good leader.
Sounds like to me everyone is required to follow like sheep & never to question leadership. Doesnt sound like a healthy church to me. Also, anyone who leaves the ICC is in sin? Guess the ICC is filled with sinful leaders (and I dont mean in a biblical way). Explain to me why many leaders, appointed by Kip himself, left the ICC????
It is stunning to me that this odious person and his group continues to deceive people into thinking these beliefs and practices are remotely Christian. Sad that Kip McKean has not learned the key lessons about life, other people, and the Christian faith. I hope that all people everywhere take special note of him and avoid his absolutely poor example and abusive behavior. I am tempted to use the words of Bob Dylan in his "Masters of War" song...."not even Jesus would ever forgive what you do." A note to all the apologists for the ICC--you are trying to defend flawed theology, flawed insight, and corrupted people. It is a sad thing to give good years to lies. Only the truth will make you free.ReplyDelete