Jun 26, 2015

Another Blogger Joins the Fray: The Articles of Indignation: Exposing the Corruption of Kip McKean's "Churches" (The ICC)

I am glad to welcome a new blogger to the fray today, a former member of Kip McKean's International Christian Church (ICC) with quite a few things to say about his time in the cult. His conclusions about the group are strikingly similar to mine. I think it adds strength to both my statements and his that we both were able to come to such similar conclusions about the abusive nature of this group. (Well, he and I and a few thousand other people before us.)

"Dan" has written a series of nine articles so far, which he has just published together as a group. The articles speak in depth about the ICC's corruption, practices to extort as much money as possible from their victims, the ICC's psychological control systems, manipulative and deceitful practices, character assassination, and how Kip McKean hides corruption and silences his victims (good Lord, I have personal experience on that one).

The blog: http://thearticlesofindignation.blogspot.com/

His articles (so far):

1. The ICC's Corrupt Policies for Money (Part 1)

2. The ICC's Corrupt Policies for Money (Part 2)

3. The ICC's Extortion and Coercion for Money

4. The ICC's Psychological Control System

5. The ICC's Psychological Control System Part 2: The Issue of Central Leadership

6. Other Manipulative Tactics, Deceitful Arguments, and Abusive Methods

7. Character Assassination: The "Bitter Card" and the "Prideful Card"

8. "Spiritual Pornography": Kip McKean's Ruse for Hiding Corruption and Silencing Victims

9. The ICC's Universal Excuse: "We are Evangelizing the World"

Let's give this guy major props for writing such a complete manifesto with such detail about why the ICC is such a terrible organization. Seriously, what church besides the Westboro Baptist Church has so many detractors? (Hint: There Is A Reason For The Existence of Said Detractors And It Isn't Because "God's Church Is Always Persecuted"!)

124 comments:

  1. The blog is very well thought out though the pdf chapters seems to be in the wrong order which is an easy fix, I've read the first couple of sections and could relate to everything he said, though I left a couple of years ago I am reminded of yes why did the cult keep upping the missions collections. Daniel has spotted things that probably many current members will question, he has brought new insight into the workings of the cult and it's manipulative ways, well done Daniel looking forwards to more from him. It makes me question why missions collections were even needed in addition to tithes surely tithes even though they are not a new testament command was enough, as we now know nothing is ever enough for the cult.

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    1. Missions contributions are "needed" so as to milk the most possible money out of the members as possible. Since the overwhelming majority of the money goes to leadership, it certainly calls into question the motivation of any leader in the ICC who is "encouraging" or "admonishing" others to sacrifice more money (I should say "pressuring" and "haranguing" others to donate more money). "Give more money to ME! I mean, to GOD. Yes, I will take that from you. You know, for God, since God wants me to live in the best neighborhood and have a six-figure salary." Such BS. Thanks for commenting!

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    2. we need more posts. lol

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    3. This is in response to Article 3-Extortion and Coercion for Money; Article 4-Psychological Control System referenced above:

      Just came across a Purity Covenant that Mike Patterson, leader of the Gainsville ICC, drafted for those who want to be a member of his "Purity Fight Club". Those who wish to place membership MUST agree to all his (Patterson's) terms and sign/date the contract. Not surprisingly money and complete submission to church authority are among the requirements:

      *If I masturbate or look at pornography I have to double my contribution every time.
      *I will submit to the group leader and church leadership

      You can find the entire document here:

      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PIoA50y4ve5nc6rhEjJpbBMP71_ts1w7Awha_Yp9_b0/edit

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    4. Don't be surprised if Mike revises and/or deletes this doc after finding that it made it onto this website. Like most ICC leaders, he is known to remove comments from his blog and Facebook that oppose and/or challenge ICC doctrine and practices.

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    5. To August 8 commentor:
      I know exactly what you are talking about. I remember a few months back when some people were having a debate on one of Mike Patterson’s posts. They brought up some good arguments which challenged one of Mike’s views. Mike then deleted all the opposing comments and gave the excuse that even though the comments were not bad; that they had the potential for “confusing” the younger ICC members who could see the post. You can totally see the deceitful censorship here by labeling any opposing arguments as “confusing” which do not agree with the ICC’s views.

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    6. This is a cult. Very dangerous & damaging to people. Brainwashing to the max

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  2. What happended to DJ Comisford? Kacie is dating some other guy now. Did they get a divorce?

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  3. Kacie is already dating someone??.... geez... that is so messed up. I'm pretty sure DJ is off the grid right now in ohio. I can relate to him so much and all the bad things he went through. I just hope he's mentally ok and around people that love him.

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    1. I'm Kacie's Dad and I know the whole story of Kacie & D.J. Your comments are all ill informed. I would add that I am not a member of the ICC. 937/876-9036

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  4. I will pray for y'all

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    1. you dont have to pray I just hope you get out of this cult before you drop out of school and this evil organization drains all your life and money out of you if it hasn't already..

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    2. They will drain your finances & your emotions, reasoning, spirituality. You wont even know who you really are. Get out!!

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  5. I love how the most ill equipped, immature and intellectually challenged ICC leaders always have something to say. The below is a Facebook post written by Kelly Bartholomew, a women's ministry leader in the ICC, on the topic of whether or not a date should be called a "date" or "e-time" (encouraging time). Why this is even a topic worthy of discussion just goes to show the STATE OF LAME known as the ICC...but I digress. Kelly, in all her infinite wisdom, turns this Facebook thread into a "submit to your leader" admonishment and accuses those that simply commented on the post "rebellious". Now this isn't at all surprising for those that know Kelly and her husband. They were notorious for disfellowshiping and marking members of their congregation for perceivably not submitting to their authority. The big joke was that the reason the San Diego church didn't grow while they were leading it was because Kelly and Evan kept kicking people out.

    "I am saddened by what this discussion has become. It started out as one great Evangelist sharing something that concerned him amongst his beloved people, which is righteous and good. Then another brother giving the facts to the concerned brother, which is righteous and Good. Then the Evangelist who is responsible for the new trend speaks up to explain, which again is righteous and good. There are no problems here. My issue is this: there are disciples who have taken this opportunity to publically rebel against the God given authority of these great Men of God who are appointed evangelists. They have been ordained by God to make decisions about how to move the congregation towards godliness and fruitfulness. They can have differing opinions and run things differently in their own congregation. These two brothers are not at odds with each other, they are communicating as peers. So Please remember, the bible says this: "remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith" Hebrews 13:7, and "have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you." Hebrews 10:17, these Evangelist love their congregations and the kingdom of God. Please speak privately with them if you have something on your heart."-Kelly Bartholomew

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    1. lame is the correct term for this bible based cult. im so happy I got away from all the hypocrisy and left with my dignity intact(although my character was being assassinated while in the process of leaving). I think its funny how when we leave we see the individual members of this cult for who they really are (a bunch of immature judgemental children with big egos). while there is a small amount with good hearts. the majority plagues the minority so it doesn't matter... and dont get me started on the leaders meetings whitch is a big gossip party in which personal details about new members are open for discussion. i just want to tell aspiring and current members to leave before its too late and the better part of your life is taken away from you

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    2. *where personal details*

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    3. It's interesting that this leader, Kelly, uses such words as "righteous", "good", "great men", "godliness and fruitfulness", and "love" to describe ICC leaders but uses terms like "publicly rebel" to describe and accuse the flock who are simply voicing their preference on an issue as mundane as what to call a "date". Kelly's accusation implies that the flock is some how unrighteous, bad, unloving, ungodly, fruitless, etc. (the opposite of leaders) for simply sharing their preference. This says A LOT about how Kelly views herself in relation to those under her.

      It's also disconcerting that she directs people to "speak privately with them [evangelists] if you have something on your heart." This is a censorship ploy that perpetuates a culture of silence within a group. It discourages people from OPENLY expressing their opinions, beliefs and personal convictions out of fear they may differ from those in leadership. This is a prime example of the manipulative tactics and abusive methods ICC leaders engage in to exert control over members.

      Kelly's statement, "They can have differing opinions and run things differently in their own congregation" is also very telling. What she reveals is that the congregation is at the mercy of the evangelist and women's ministry leader's OPINIONS. For example, say Kelly forbids her disciples from wearing the color red because she thinks it's ugly. Kelly moves to a different city and another women's ministry leader takes her place. This new leader likes the color red but doesn't like the color blue and therefore forbids her disciples from wearing blue. Based on Kelly's post, it's ok for leaders to have an opinion on matters and demand their congregation submit to that opinion. Yet, it's not ok for the flock to have their own opinions and personal conviction that differ from the leaders.

      It's no surprise to learn that Kelly and her husband resort to "marking" and "disfellowshiping" members they "perceive" as rebellious because they are unable to manipulate and exert their power over these people.

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    4. I recall Brandyn Speckman, Kelly's discipler, telling a member of the congregation that although wearing a swimsuit is a "matter of opinion" (i.e. not a salvation issue), members should support their leaders in ALL MATTERS because the bible says "obey your leaders and submit to their authority..." Now if this isn't outright manipulation, I don't know what is!!!

      Even Kip McKean stated he was wrong to teach that disciples were required to obey their disciplers on matters of opinion, and this would no longer be taught. Yet based on Kelly's post and Brandyn's swim wear "edict" this practice is alive and well in the ICC.

      Hey Brandyn! Was it a red swimsuit or blue?

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    5. "Now if this isn't outright manipulation, I don't know what is!!!"

      Well...they did get their degree from the ICCM also known as the International College of Coercion and Manipulation! Ha!

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  6. I read through the entire Facebook thread and there was NOTHING that anyone said that could be misconstrued as rebellious. What it actually looks like is that Kelly is trying to stir the pot with her post.

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    1. To Anonymous Aug 4th-Funny that you say this because I thought the same thing when I read the comments on MP's Facebook post. Not only does KB respond to a thread that's been dead for several weeks but it was like she was trying to create drama by pitting the leaders against the members with her sorely out of place comment.

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  7. Chaplain’s prayer,

    Evil is making the collar tight on the neck. Evil is messing up orders to be evil. Evil is messing up sox sizes so they don't fit right. Evil is that big in everything. 90/1 odds. It’s nothing to army of 1. In automotive repair each part is 40+ dollars on profits. Web advisers are making up laws in the rules of the web. Web advisors can be caught just by reading the rules of the websites. Computers have few programs working when brand new to be evil. The 90% of people need to be in the wild with nothing to their names like the wild life and yes it happened in time humor. Evil in time homey you don't even know language anymore G-Money. Evil has the microwave too hard to use to be evil. Evil has set the refrigerator boxes at temps for your food too taste bad somewhat. When buying a new computer evil has from the owner to the buyer changed the computers programming for you to have to reprogram your new computer as if you were a computer programmer. At one time evil did not allow {from the owner to the buyer} your cars to last a million miles which was discovered in earth time the 1960’s. Televisions have been set up like computers to have long startups {a computer word when these 2 words are put together}. Back to computers they have been set up to not turn off or on right away to be evil to you somehow. Microwaves, ovens, refrigerators can be user friendly at the first grade level of operation but evil tells you people want a challenge when operating anything and everything. You can hear evil tell you the school system needs to be a challenge to students because they’re getting smarter butt students are not getting smarter. In school it is not humanly possible to pass if not given the work and the grades by way of easy train. You can fall in it all evil. With school I personally know is not humanly possible to make it through if not given the work and the grades by way of easy money. Somehow the 90-1’s have done this to everything out there. When it comes to the madness we were thinking of the beach metaphor not having our minds baking on how evil we can drive people crazy. They are first {the 90% of people} trying to make evil to every living thing they call it and then trying to drive you crazy. While they’re doing all that they are making themselves go crazy. I’ve only writing a few lines but right now I need a beach break to chill out my the madness of what they bake on with every sentence. Dude I’m not going to waste my beach time on all this butt it looks like we can trap them in “Propaganda Government” and as “Wild Life” with no “Foreign Trade” from us and so. If we let them in our society they will metaphor pee and poo in everything all the time and then much more. Whatever they can get they will push like in “Mexico Government” to “make it happen” in their words. Right now throughout the worlds humor we have to leave them out of our society in self-defense of ourselves. We all make mistakes so we shouldn’t through the good people out of our society but the 90% need to be left in a society like the jungle. Out there right now the 90% are trying to make false arrests and unlawful detainments on everyone and everyone to be evil. It is “{Mexico Government With American Power and Money}” out there right now. You have to be very careful not to get arrested because they have the “{Mexico Government With American Power and Money}” to trap you not only in the criminal justice system, prison system and then the school system butt in every design of systems or not systems to trap you in “{Mexico Government With American Power and Money}”.

    Az 'George Howe' 0'Neill Anonymous
    Genius Physiologist Chaplain
    Psychologist Film Military Scientist
    Anthropologist Movie Sarcasm

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  8. I pity you for your cowardness. You're hiding behind this blog yet your heart is yelling bitterness and mind jealousy. May God deal with you!

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    1. The real cowards are those who sit back and do nothing while the ICC upper leadership abuses their power and uses manipulative means to coerce the members. But of course the moment someone decides to stand up against this abuse they are labeled as “bitter” by the leaders. It actually takes courage to speak out while knowing that you will be slandered for doing so.

      “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” –Edmund Burke

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  9. Az “George Howe” 0’Neill Anonymous
    Genius Physiologist Chaplain
    Psychologist Film Military Scientist
    Anthropologist Movies Sarcasm

    ROTC CHAPLAIN ROTC- ABOVE GOES ON ONE PAGE AND IS OUR LIFES OUTLINE. YOU CAN USE IT AS A GUIDE HOW TO DESIGN YOUR OUTLINE BUTT I, WE GET CREDIT FOR IT RELIGIOUSLY. YES HOMEY I KNOW HOW TO PRAY BUTT I CALL IT I KNOW HOW TO HELL MARY. ABOVE LIVES OUTLINE GOES TO THE ROTC. THE J’S TOO. IT SHOULD BE SENT TO FORKNER ELEMENTRY SCHOOL FRESNO CALIFORNIA TO MADI LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), EMMA LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), BELLY LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS) FOR THEIR WORK, SCHOOL AND THEN PLAY BUTT NO YOU’RE IN 1ST GRADE FORSAY GET TO WORK. Sidebar everything should be at the 1st grade level and then Emily Chavez Anonymous is the girlz Young Marine represent for say. Post small air field Fresno Northside Herndon. Yo teach we get that could be our education do you.

    Church Chaplain ROTC Messy Prayer Buy Out At $ 55 million Just Entertainment,

    Okay you guys are the church butt I don’t know if you know anything about religion butt as an reprehensive of the assassin association of the church I like too kidding, reteach you some religion about Evil. You know with humor I was traveling around space and noticed some Evil forces and stuff you know flying threw through me and noticed a couple things. As the Evil force was blowing threw through me I realized Evil may never go down because maybe possibly anytime someone has an Evil emotion or so like anger the energy might flow to the flow of Evil energy and be everlasting and jazz. Well I guess you know you heathens need to never have an Evil thought or emotion again you know like anger. Trying to keep the entertainment at a spark we would like to introduce you to the maybe possibly the Jerry Jones Cult from Pinedale California. The Jerry Jones Cult means you know in church it means Jack off Cult you know I don’t know how to patch that up for my rabbit ears Television TV but you know I’ll work on it. Anyways I’m just playing around with stuff butt I’m calling the Cult Pinedale Cult to see if the religion, spirituality around them would like a little rest sort of speak. In the Cult we have the king, snake, man with women parts Madicella Chavez. The cult ring leader is Monique Wendt. Jose Chavez goes threw through molest for over 150,000 life times with his 10 year older sister Madicella Chavez each life time even though he and she don’t remember it each life time repeated butt having no memory of it every life time for over 150,000 lifetimes. Madicella Chavez is the number one hit. But here are a few hand fulls of them for church inspections you know they can be janitors of the church and they need to polish and clean the floors because I’m like you know church royalty. Anyway here’s a few high profile targets don’t be fooled because they can barely hold themselves up butt they’re still fighting you know in and through the all churches with Satanist religion. Again some targets Madicella Chavez, Jose Chavez, Claudia Chavez, Kaya Chavez, Jon Vasquez, Richard Lopez, Jerry Lopez, {just had their first sex this life time you know mommy and son mommy Jerry and Son Richard} you know maybe, Amelia Chavez, The Amelia, Madicella Chavez you know just too inform the church of the happs our friends of all churches.

    Priest-Satanist-Cult might be the religious words needed for you know friendship operations and the churches religion. You might have too stick the exact words Satanist Religion you know for their religion title and for religious spiritual purposes you know for your church which might not know anything about you know religion. I kind of said that like a president out of “happy days” witch is Whiteboy butt it’s also Whiteboy classy gangster rap music like insane clown possie witch you know is Whiteboy and so classy without the bad words might make Whiteboy rabbit ears Television TV. See-Ya, C-ya at the show you know watching one of my “Heavens Raiders” movies.

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  10. ROTC CHAPLAIN ROTC- ABOVE GOES ON ONE PAGE AND IS OUR LIFES OUTLINE. YOU CAN USE IT AS A GUIDE HOW TO DESIGN YOUR OUTLINE BUTT I, WE GET CREDIT FOR IT RELIGIOUSLY. YES HOMEY I KNOW HOW TO PRAY BUTT I CALL IT I KNOW HOW TO HELL MARY. ABOVE LIVES OUTLINE GOES TO THE ROTC. THE J’S TOO. IT SHOULD BE SENT TO FORKNER ELEMENTRY SCHOOL FRESNO CALIFORNIA TO MADI LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), EMMA LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), BELLY LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS) FOR THEIR WORK, SCHOOL AND THEN PLAY BUTT NO YOU’RE IN 1ST GRADE FORSAY GET TO WORK. Sidebar everything should be at the 1st grade level and then Emily Chavez Anonymous is the girlz Young Marine represent for say. Post small air field Fresno Northside Herndon. Yo teach we get that could be our education do you.

    Chaplain ROTC Messy Prayer Buy Out At 55 Million for entertainment,

    Workout. Swimmers body.
    Monday.
    Chest 1. Incline 12x10. Flat bench 12-10-8-5-3-1. Swim 25miles. Run 213miles. Boxing. Karate practice.
    Chest 2. Incline dumbs 12x10. Flat bench 12-10-8-5-3-1. Swim 25miles. Run 213miles. Boxing. Karate practice.
    Tuesday.
    Legs 1. Hauck squats 12x10. Aerobic Squat 12-10-8-5-3-1. Sprints-stadiums 4 sprints. Boxing.
    Legs 2. Reverse Leg curls 12x10. Romanians 12-10-8-5-3-1. Sprints-stadiums 4 sprints. Boxing.
    Wednesday.
    Shoulders 1. Dumbs 12x10. Military 12-10-8-5-3-1. Swim 25miles. Run 213miles. Boxing aerobics. Karate practice.
    Shoulders 2. Strength Lateral rows 12x10. Military 12-10-8-5-3-1. Swim 25miles. Run 213miles. Boxing aerobics. Karate practice.
    Thursday.
    Back 1. Narrow rows 12x10. Bent-overs 12-10-8-5-3-1. Sprints-stadiums 4sprints. Boxing yoga.
    Back 2. Pull down Narrow rows 12x10. Bent-overs 12-10-8-5-3-1. Sprints-stadiums 4sprints. Boxing yoga.
    That’s about it. Ice. heat.
    Shower workout. Jumping jacks 12. Fingertip pushups 12. Aerobic Squats 12. Twists 25. Once a week.
    Stomach 1. Twists 25. Sit ups. Left crunch. Ball center crunch. Center crunch.
    Stomach 2. Cable sitting crunch. Left cable sitting crunch. Left decline crunch. Left ball crunch. Crunch. Twists 25.
    Stomach 3. Twists 25. Sit ups. Right crunch. Ball center crunch. Center crunch.
    Stomach 4. Cable sitting crunch. Right cable sitting crunch. Right decline crunch. Right ball crunch. Crunch. Twists 25.

    Teachers are ordered not to confuse students butt they know just teaching math is confusing enough for you to lose all of you education that you worked so hard to earn. There’s a rumor that Satanist’s humor worked on making your education as much math as possible to confuse you away from learning all of your selected educations. Math Teachers are known to know this and make math very hard, complicated to understand so students won’t understand as little as possible. Math Teachers and many other Teachers make studies complicated and hard, difficult to understand so you won’t understand anything for say maybe.

    Yo homey we the number # 1 fist-fighters in worlds.
    Az “George Howe” 0’Neill Anonymous
    Genius Physiologist Chaplain
    Psychologist Film Military Scientist
    Anthropologist Movies Sarcasm

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    1. They're students who get As in every subject, from math (very easily understood by people with an IQ of over 120), to sciences, social science, history, to language arts and government (English and foreign languages). They are not confused away from learning all of their selected educations (sic). If it's too much for you to handle, you could either use some good tutoring or you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to tackle the subjects at hand.

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  11. ROTC Chaplain ROTC- above goes on one page and is our Families Family life’s “‘{Family Life Outline.}’”. (Life line for now.). You can use it as a guide too design your {Family outline} your outline Butt I, we get credit for it religiously. Yes homey I know how to pray butt I call it I Know how to hail-hell-Mary. ABOVE LIVES OUTLINE GOES TO THE ROTC. THE J’S TOO. IT SHOULD BE SENT TO FORKNER ELEMENTRY SCHOOL FRESNO CALIFORNIA TO MADI LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), EMMA LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS), BELLY LLAMEZ (ANONYMOUS) FOR THEIR WORK, SCHOOL AND THEN PLAY BUTT NO YOU’RE IN 1ST GRADE FORSAY GET TO WORK. Sidebar everything should be at the 1st grade level and then Emily Chavez Anonymous is the girls Young Marine represent for say. Post small air field Fresno Northside Herndon. Yo teach we get that could be our education do you.

    Chaplain messy Religious Prayer Hail St. Mary true life story butt fantasy movie,
    Walmart Drug Dealer-Chemist In The House,
    On an order on a corrections guards order “we need help in here”. I was going to do something like that anyway ok correctional officers. The me in me does those types of undercover work ok. It’s just the me in me. It’s not work because it’s just the me in me ok. I, we have 100% poll ratings and then 1 image the song “‘Many Men’”. “‘Many Men’” ”’$$$Back on a wall now you going see you better watch how you talk when you talk about me’”$$$. –Entertainer-Comedian. “We give and take no orders” –Heavens Raiders Saga eternity Narnia eternity movies.
    1, You are not supposed to strip search too nudity anyone. You can search without your molest, rape, nudity, molest search. What makes you think you can strip search people? What gives you the right to see a husband or wife’s private parts or little guys private parts ok. This was firsthand knowledge and it was explained too the guards “don’t do this one ok” molester rapist yourself yourselves.
    1, Bathrooms in some places of lock ups are made so you can see the nudity of husbands, wives, daughters, sons which intern is another form of rape, molest.
    1, Prison’s need to come down. Period. Pro Education vote for me “’President George Georgian’” with no connections to the CIA KGB Radio Television. –Humor.
    1, Guards are making their own laws and rules each guard individually. It’s even more obvious in the court that they hold you until they know the law’s on your Issue. The Judge, D/a, public defend will not let anyone go until they can figure out the law around you individually ok. Court Time is about two 2+ years plus before they think they can let you go from the court. Any charge anytime I, we will win 10 I, we win out and it will be all good for I, us ok.
    1, Correctional officers I reported that I’m assassin not doing the work which is ok in the united states constitution and then it’s playing with the rules of the, The United States –British white ok. British white is what the United States is supposed to be. Everything when the British bought this land is supposed to British ok. That’s what I understand maybe.
    1, Still today I, we can walk out of any court a free person and then with freedom of speak. Ok writer girls.
    1, Three 3 guards, 3 correctional office sheriff guards grabbed a jailor from jail for no reason and locked them in a room to abuse the person. Yes I, we have fresh firsthand knowledge.
    1, nobody wants too study the law, rules enough too walk away from prison jail lock up hospital or any lock up not even the chilled out mental hospital ok. They send people to the mental hospital for drugs. That place has unlawful permission too never let you go.
    1, There is more butt that might be too much for now ok. Correctional officers that own you I already went baby ok okay ok.
    1, I, we got the DEA a job with the FDA ok. Now Correctional officers I got you a job in court rather than then in jails, prisons, mental hospitals or hospital lock downs ok okay ok…

    Az ‘George Howe’ 0’Neill Anonymous.
    Po box 25893-5893.
    Fresno California 93729.

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    1. Everything that Kip mckean has done was on the basis that to be saved, you have to be a christian of which is a disciple. One problem with this is that christian and disciple mean different things. First of all, the word christian is an adjective and the word disciple is a noun. Christ was on fact speaking to the disciples who became apostles, the great commission does not apply to anyone who was not there. On the original bible "the great commission" is not even written. Further more the apostle Paul was not made a disciple through some so called "great commission" but through direct revelation from Christ. Apostles only therefore were the only men authorized to make disciples and pass on miraculous gifts of the holy spirit. After the book of acts the term disciple is not mentioned again but christian is. With Christ in heaven and apostles gone there is no one left qualified to make disciples. Therefore we are left with Christianity who should be expressing peace, hope, and love.

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    2. Everything that Kip mckean has done was on the basis that to be saved, you have to be a christian of which is a disciple. One problem with this is that christian and disciple mean different things. First of all, the word christian is an adjective and the word disciple is a noun. Christ was on fact speaking to the disciples who became apostles, the great commission does not apply to anyone who was not there. On the original bible "the great commission" is not even written. Further more the apostle Paul was not made a disciple through some so called "great commission" but through direct revelation from Christ. Apostles only therefore were the only men authorized to make disciples and pass on miraculous gifts of the holy spirit. After the book of acts the term disciple is not mentioned again but christian is. With Christ in heaven and apostles gone there is no one left qualified to make disciples. Therefore we are left with Christianity who should be expressing peace, hope, and love.

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    3. This blog in general has always been filled with emotion, half-truths and a ton of lies. I typically never take anything here at face value due to the conflicting stories however I will say this, what you just wrote was BY FAR one of the most incorrect things ever on the internet and I am NOT exaggerating.

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    4. I would have to agree that Anthony’s post is made on a bunch of blind assumptions and I would definitely not agree with what he writes here. But I would also disagree with your statement that this blog has “always been filled with “half-truths and a ton of lies”. It was actually a very informative blog until the author made the post “You Know You’re a Member of Kip McKean’s Sold Out Movement When”. I would have to say that that post and the other one like it were a bit out of hand. But looking at the abuse and manipulation that I suffered during my time in the ICC and the lies that their leadership told the members; I have to say that the rest of what the author writes about and what the people have been commenting on is similar to my own experiences.

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    5. Amen, people sin. But they do also repent. This I've seen first hand. But are you (and other random readers) actively seeking the kingdom and correcting the sin's of your brothers as eagerly as adding to this blog? If the righteousness of those who complain on such blogs was as great as they assert, God himself would raise you up to lead it, or a better movement. Be assured of that. ACTS 5:38 - "Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail."

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    6. Awww. Poor little baby can't handle criticism? Jesus had criticism and he also gave it. It is NOT the same as persecution, which I doubt you have ever actually experienced.

      Delete
    7. You mention education, but it's abundantly clear you are the one who needs to go back to school. You are functionally illiterate, your concepts are very poorly expressed, and they are not intelligible.

      Delete
  12. Someone's also made a new 2016 youtube channel about the cult
    www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJjjT6Z1vae9HP32Mx9Rwj68-wnr6ZjY

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know that someone, a good friend from a few years ago.

      Delete
  13. He's updated it, with a new article.

    http://thearticlesofindignation.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-new-gods-of-kip-mckeans.html

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hey, there's another new person speaking up about the ICC. I have not read much of what they had to say yet, but I just googled for recent information about the group and found this:

    http://kipmckeanicccult.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-cult-of-kip-mckean.html

    ReplyDelete
  15. I remember Kip McKean ... I thought he was a good person, and still feel he tries to be.

    First of all, I want to let all know that I was kicked out of the ICOC fellowship back in 2004. What bothered me about this was the fact that they had no Biblical-backing in doing so. In fact, the Bible says all the opposite. But, the leadership did as fear directed them to do so.

    Did the leadership have any concrete evidence against me ? No. Did they have any valid complaints about me ? No. But, they thought that kicking me out - would fix their problems. This is where the ICOC did things they felt were correct … but they were following “instructions” that are found nowhere in the Bible. “They added words.” The instructions the Bible speaks against “adding words” – which is found in Revelations.

    The ICOC leadership started drumming up “evil deeds” that they felt I was responsible for. They demanded that I attend Psychological Counseling, and waited for me to confess to the Psychologist what they decided I had done. But, what they think I did – never happened.

    But, here it is 12 years later, and I believe it was God that wanted me out of that fellowship. He saw that I have a genuine heart, and that is what He is after. In I Corinthians, it talks about, “Wide is the road that leads to Destruction, and many will find it. Narrow is the road that leads to Eternal Life, and few will find it.”

    The only spiritual issue that is important is what Peter says in Acts 2:38. “Repent and be baptized - Everyone of you. For the forgiveness of Sins.” After you are baptized, the Bible says that you have to live the rest of your life with a Good Conscience towards God. This “Good Conscience” is what keeps you out of sin. If you don’t do what the Bible says, “The Great Commission,” then when you die, “it” becomes a sin, and you are spiritually forgiven of it. The ICOC focuses too much on the “Sharing of your faith” in order to get to Heaven.

    Do you know what I have figured out over the past 12 years ? The United States Federal Government arrests people, then processes their criminal charge under the wrong US Statute. The Federal Government does this because it generates them more money, than if the US Federal Government processed that criminal charge under the correct US Statute.

    This is the evidence of greed.

    “Hear Am I, Send Me.” Over the past 12 years, I have been sent. I went on a Godly Adventure - that still isn’t over. Do I wish I hadn’t gone ? … No. I am glad I did.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No Kip does not try to be a good person. He has been approached many many times on his arrogance and manipulative ways that have led to much abuse against the ICC’s members. He has refused to repent from his wicked ways and instead tries to shift the blame on others while claiming that those who question him are “deceived by the devil”. He is nothing more than a con-artist.

      Delete
    2. "When words abound, transgression is inevitable, but the one who restrains his words is wise. " It sounds like you need to repent.

      Delete
    3. Spoken like a true ICOC/ICC mindless drone. Anytime someone challenges you with scripture, somehow it's them who needs to repent and not you. You might be interested in the psychological concept of Projection. Then, if/when you have grasped that, look up brainwashing.

      Or, you could continue to hide within the comfortable confines of a small mind, but in doing so, you have no grounds admonishing others to repent while you steadfastly refuse to.

      Delete
  16. Latest lies from McKean is that because of the Kreite letter "all the churches lost more than half their fellowship" www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVOg5TGDE4Q 8m28 Kip always lies

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IMO, he is exaggerating to make a point (that slander promotes fallaways). I thought the Icoc had 1/4 mil in members in the 2000's but perhaps that was including guests. According to my research, they went from 120,000 to <79,000 after that letter. That is still a challenging number close enough to warrant the statement if you calculate how many fell-away in their hearts but still went to church. I'm fairly open minded but I think this comment is a bit of a stretch.

      Delete
  17. I'm not entirely sure if I will get an answer, but it'd be greatly appreciated. So I'm a high school senior and I'm a leader in our Christian club. We used to be bigger, however our club kind of separated due to the fact that one of our members is part of ICC. He doesn't agree with what we are preaching, which is that salvation isn't work based. So I was wondering if any of you had any insight as to what they preach and how I could have a conversation with them about it

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Every member of the ICC is taught a study series knows as First Principles. In it, the potential member/disciple/Christian, is taught on a variety of subjects such as the bible, the church, discipleship, sin, baptism, etc. Here's a link:

      http://www.caicc.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/FirstPrinciples_Eng.pdf

      Though this may be helpful, it probably doesn't do justice on HOW studies are led. Listening to these audio recordings will probably give you a really good idea of the culture of the ICC and how they approach studying the bible with someone. Go to the below link and click on 1st Principles:

      http://www.bostonicc.org/sermons/

      Delete
    2. Tread carefully when initiating dialogue. Seek a lot of advice from your church pastor or campus ministry leader and spend some time praying and meditating why you want to speak to this person and what you hope to accomplish.

      Don't be surprised if this member of the ICC suggests while in conversation that the two of you have a bible study. That doesn't mean: let's meet together and discuss the scriptures, just you and I. But rather: you will meet with me and several other members of the ICC to go over one of the First Principles studies. (Be gracious and humble when you strike up a conversation with them and keep 2 Timothy 2:23 in mind.)

      You'll find a lot of useful information about the ICC and Kip McKean here and elsewhere. But some key points to keep in mind (and I'm sure others can add to this) are:

      The ICC teaches that they are God's Modern Day movement. And with that comes the stigma that many other churches are lukewarm, have lost their way, and very few people out there know what it means to be a "true" disciple of Christ.

      They believe in evangelizing the world in a single generation. (More about that here: http://www.caicc.net/crown-of-thorns-project/)

      And because of that conviction of world evangelism, they are heavily works oriented when it comes to evangelizing and baptizing new members.

      Hope this is helpful. Others will give more helpful information, Im sure.

      Delete
    3. My advice would be to try to separate the remaining members of your club from that ICC cult member ASAP. The members of the ICC will typically prey on Christians on campus to try to recruit them into their cult. They are heavily pressured into recruiting as many people as possible to increase their organizational profits. If he fails to recruit you, he will go after the other people in your club (if he hasn’t done so already). Yes do some research on the ICC and Kip McKean and bring up to him the alarming issues in his organization, but first I would suggest alerting the remaining members of your club about keeping their distance from him.

      Delete
    4. Also another important thing to note: ICC members view people outside their organization as “lost”. When you speak to him you will eventually find that he considers himself to be “spiritually superior” to you because he believes that his organization is THE church of God and that only his organization under the leadership of Kip McKean is looked upon by God’s favor while all other churches need to be “saved” by them. This makes it difficult to reason with them. Also avoid talking with them about baptism; they are specifically trained to debate with people on this issue and is the area they like hitting on the most.

      Delete
  18. Latest news is Gabe Reed and his wife have left the cult, they were the leaders in Eugene http://livinginthebookofacts.blogspot.com/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As usual the cult leadership has gone into damage control mode which means not really talking about the issues, demonizing those who have left and getting back to business as usual of collecting tithes and living like gods.

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the link.

      I read on someone's Facebook comment that there was a letter by someone in/from the O'ahu church. Does anyone know if there's a link to it?

      Delete
    3. Gabe & Co left the ICC for the ICOC

      Never in the history of these churches have I watched someone leave the ICC for the ICOC due to righteousness.....it's always them fleeing submission to the Bible. If you knew his sin, you'd know what I mean.

      Delete
  19. After the aftermath of the Reeds leaving the ICC, the Eugene ICC church has updated/changed their website.
    Also posting a new article calling the ICOC lukewarm at best.
    http://www.eugeneicc.org/gods-sold-out-movement/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Look, I believe there are saved people in the Icoc but man , have you ever been to a few of their services? Travel to 2 or 3. They seem conviction-less. Low zeal, minimal drive to evangelize, trivial Bible studies. It's just super lax now. Compared to the ICC, the Icoc is indeed lukewarm. (Campus is generally decent but I struggle to fit in there due to my age). The ICC might have scared some people off with their drive and zeal but it isn't sin. If it were, the truly RIGHTEOUS members of the ICC would've left too. I know some of those guys, just like I know the Icoc guys. Trust me, the people leaving the ICC are leaving and the sin they were in before leaving wouldn't have been tolerated if I was a member of central leadership.

      Delete
    2. Apparently you've visited the wrong ICOC congregations. I know of several that are fired up, giving, evangelistic & genuine. I've been with the ICOC for 25yrs & I have discipling (the way God designed it), none of this hierarchy garbage that is forced on you. We have free-will offerings & they are that, free will. Our special missions contribution is based on a overall goal. What people give is between them & God, not the leadership. All finances are reviewed by a volunteer board where the leadership has NO say in their expense spending. Yup, our ICOC congregations are healthy, vibrant, and spiritual. We learned from our mistakes & we paid the price.

      Delete
    3. When people say the ICOC is lukewarm it's usually people who are what I call the McKean fan club and just repeat what he says parrot fashion without thinking. The ICC has lots of younger folk who might be zealous now but will they make it to the finish line, the ICC is based on zeal not the bible. It's the zeal that attracts people then as you mature you see the false doctrines and superficiality of the McKean franchises that didn't last and won't last. The ICC is doomed to fail again because of religious pride.

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous ---May 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM

      Look, when you say "Apparently you've visited the wrong ICOC congregations" that alone is my issue. You guys (icoc) are trivially different than the past with the exception to the alteration to a more delegation -type structure. Even with the newer means of leading, the issues/decisions seem to get solved at a snail pace vs the icc's crown of thorns ideology of rapid discussions and solution making.

      What location is this you attend that is so much better than the others? I'll visit it. But to be clear, I think I've seen enough Icoc.

      Delete
    5. The LA ICOC as a whole is healthier.
      My region is growing, the members are happier & the finances are overlooked by a board of volunteers (non-paid). The ministry staff have to answer to the board when it comes to spending. Our special missions is once per year & we have an over all goal, not a per member goal. yes we have had yrs were we fell short, but you cant draw blood from a turnip. I has sat with the ministry staff on several occasions & brought up concerns. most were addressed or are still being worked on towards resolution.

      Delete
  20. Theresa Broom has beeb disfellowshipped accroding to Micaheal Williamnson in London in his sermon "Faith That Pleases God.

    ReplyDelete
  21. No wonder the ICC is crumbling, not only are members & evangelists leaving on their own accord the ICC to disfellowshipping ppl in record numbers. If any one needs a job & doesnt mind being told what to do or doesnt have any integrity and has at least a high school diploma I think Kip's movement is hiring. Oh, you must love traveling & moving at a moments notice. Sales & manipulation is a plus. Salary starts small but increases as you recruit more members to your fledgling congregation. If you love God & want to do what is ethically right, you need not apply.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And if you do not mind having your character assasinated be sure to join the ICC Cult.

      Delete
    2. How is Chris Broom able to remain on staff if his wife is disfellowshipped? then again is he still on staff?

      What is the status of the Brooms?

      Delete
    3. Why don't you ask Chris Broom himself?

      Delete
    4. Kip and his wife, Elena< have been kicked out of two out of the three churches he either preached in (CoC) or founded, all by their respective board of directors (they have to find a way to keep their non-profit status). The McKeans have had to move three times to different parts of the country (OR, RI and now CA) with the excuse they were "growing the church". They got run out of town every toime. Grifters and hypocrites once, grifters and hypocrites always.

      Delete
  22. My son just joined an ICC church. He appears to have made alot of friends and has decided to stay for the summer. He just finished his 1st year of school away. I fear his good heart is being taken advantage of. What can I do or should do. He has been in it for 4 months. I love him very much and do not want him to be hurt. Please advise me

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes his good heart is being taken advantage of to a lesser or greater extent. The non-leader members are mostly friendly and genuine, the problem is the manipulation and exploitation of some the leaders who use what is know as mind control methods. He might be in a more mild less controlling part of the cult or a more extreme part of the cult. Allot of what happens is down to which part of the ICC he is part of, if there is abuse then probably he would make his own choice to leave. These type of cults have a high turnover rate, most people who join leave within 2 years or less. freedomofmind.com is helpful as is reveal.org which is specifically about the ICC. What I would say is don't use the word cult or brainwashed or mind control when you talk to him because that is perceived as persecution and would drive him further into the cult. The core of the ICC cult is based on the fact they assume to speak from God when it is just greedy hypocrites, hopefully he in time can see that and leave. Steven Hassan from freedomofmind.com has succesfully got many people out of cults like the ICC he would be a good first contact.

      Delete
    2. What's your son's name? What school/church did he go to?

      Delete
    3. I too am willing to help in this matter.

      Delete
    4. ICOC or ICC? two different churches. and NO, the ICOC is not a cult. we are in a much better place now.

      Delete
    5. yes, seriously. I know of several former ICC members who are now attending ICOC congregations. After the ICOC shake up in 2003, many if not all congregations are moving into a healthier direction. If you are thinking both movements are cults, you clearly havent given either movements a fair shake to see the differences.

      Delete
  23. Seems this site hasn't been updated in awhile, still great info here, hope it is updated soon. I have a blog that might help people leave such deceptive cults helenadeprogrammer.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. we do need more posts to stop this deceptive cult

      Delete
    2. ****** Acts 5:38 So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”

      Delete
    3. To Anonymous August 18, 2016:
      The ICC has an 80% drop out rate and a 90% drop out rate for their L.A. church. They are deep in debt due to the unconstricted expenditures of the leadership on themselves and have resorted to deceiving their members in order to get more money. They are failing already.

      Delete
    4. then let it go.....

      Delete
  24. Video about Kip McKean cult, nothings changed he's still brainwashing people and they still need long term mental health care to recover www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh_-uOpqvhk

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hmmm, the NY & Manila churches had "Life" Talks....aka, to be sure each member is fully "committed" to giving contribution & "sold out" to the movement. Its a way to tighten the reigns on their members.

    Within a week, each member had "Life Talks" where we made sure that each disciple was strengthened in their convictions, had a discipleship partner with regular d-times, and was an active member of a Bible Talk!
    http://www.caicc.net/good-news-email-august-28th-2014/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes! They were amazing! Numerous restorations, baptisms and general fruit were seen as a result of this mini-revival. Life talks weren't about money as much as all-around righteousness. If a member was struggling to meet a tithe, that topic was likely discussed but lets be real for a moment. If someone is missing their offering, (barring an extreme event) it's likely a heart issue. Even before I was a disciple, I still gave to God because I knew the need for funding the 3rd world missionaries & meeting hometown expenses was not just a 1 time thing. I had one of these talks and had one of sorts with my disciples. Now we are fully unified in spirit and purpose. =) Besides, if God really "needed" our money vs. our heart, a disciple would just win the lotto.

      Delete
    2. To Anonymous September 27,
      You say “If someone is missing their offering, (barring an extreme event) it's likely a heart issue”.
      This is typical ICC propaganda; always placing the blame on the members.
      What is extreme is how aggressively the ICC leadership goes after the members in order to raise their contributions multiple times a year via raises to their weekly contributions and non-consensual raises to their special contributions. This has led to situations such as where they had 9 sisters living together in a two bedroom apartment and were still struggling with their inability to pay the rent. The way that the ICC exploits their members is unbiblical and sickening.

      Delete
  26. Not much persecution regarding the ICC these days, what tends to happen with such cults is when you back off from exposing them they start to self-destruct as they can no longer blame outsiders. Such cults are always abusive and self-destruct or blame shift.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What are you talking about? That isn't what has occurred though. The persecution has continued but that is because it is Biblical since their righteousness has continued. The members of the icc/icoc/ccc/doc/coc/etc will always have persecution because they aren't better than Jesus. If Jesus had it, we will. We are NOT more publically smooth in speech than the Lord. Additionally, the icc has grown by the thousands since this blog was first published. Lastly, the claims herein have been thoroughly debunked. A disbeliever of the aforementioned statement is likely deceived by their own sin.

      Delete
    2. Right? It's sad how every time I see blogs like this, it's all distorted, half-truth, sentimental, lukewarm people congregating to slander. As someone who has ties with all 3 movements, and majority of you involved, you need to repent. Not ONCE in all my years have I seen someone step away in complete righteousness. They always have some huge looming sin overhead. Always

      Delete
    3. so my question for Anon march 28 8:56am,
      If you have ties with all 3 movements, what sin are you running from?

      Delete
    4. Beloved saints in the Stone-Campbell heritage,

      Greetings in the name of our Master in all of His fullness. Also, I live in the Netherlands in Europe. So, I'm not even on the same continent as you ...

      At present I'm engaged in a 20-week mentoring commitment with the author of ONE: Unfolding God's Eternal Purpose from House to House. This book is available for free viewing online at www.onebody.life. Your brother in Christ Jon Zens introduced me to the author of this book, namely being Henry Hon, via the internet in late November last year.

      The roots of my own faith are within the Stone-Campbell heritage of the nineteenth century. As far as I'm aware, they'd been a cessationist movement from scratch! Around two years before I became rather active in the faith I initially had been baptised at a very traditional Church of Christ (CoC) beforehand. In fact, when I encountered this small group of believers I actually still remember someone mentioning: 'We just want to be the church that you can find in the Bible.' Yet two years later I spent some three to four years over a stretch of ten years or so in the International Church of Christ (ICoC). Yes, I dropped out three to four times in that space of time!

      In fact, I had been rebaptised at the ICoC on two separate occasions even afterwards. Based on what I'd seen for many years to date now, I'd merely submitted to the group norm that the leadership of the group placed on me - just like they had done with all and sundry whom they encountered. In the end, I booked a flight to the US to thoroughly deal with the indoctrination I'd spiritually ingested in the ICoC and spent some significantly meaningful days of interaction with an experienced exit counsellor, but specifically one experienced with clients from that group.

      In some sense, although I'd already left the group and its environment, I deeply desired to make certain that the group norm and its ideology had left me.

      A while later I graduated with honours from a Church of Christ-affiliated Bible college in Athens, Greece. The CoC practises a regulative principle form of worship and uses a textually-centred approach and philosophy for interpreting the text in the Bible. A while ago I came across a certain Rick Atchley sharing a ten-minute slippery slope critique on video depicting a 150-year plus historical narrative of the Stone-Campbell Movement:

      https://youtu.be/dWfAAYuNqCs

      Eventually I started travelling on a journey away from a CoC mindset and framework towards a more Christ-centred approach towards faith and the practising of it. That came predominantly through, amongst other things, meeting other CoC renegades who also challenged their former mindset and reading materials from several other writers from an inner life, organic expression and anabaptist heritage.

      Over the last few years I've read materials and listened to a number of messages by John Bevere, Wayne Jacobsen, Leonard Sweet, David Flowers, Gene Edwards, Gregory Boyd, Jon Zens and Frank Viola - and maybe a few others. Jon Zens is the predominant one who has had a lot of influence on me for unanimously following Christ and Him alone! In fact, I've never actually met any of these aforementioned brothers in Christ before, yet Christ has been unanimously unveiled to me through many of them!

      A few months back Jon also referred me to a link of some 16 or 17 online videos he recently uploaded:

      https://youtu.be/mBKbRqNm9MY

      Love in Christ,

      Philip ;-)

      Skype: philipvdijk

      LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipvdijk/

      Delete
    5. @ Anonymous March 28, 2017 at 4:48 PM

      Actually none, I merely gained convictions on truth revealed in scripture. I was not a full fledged member in each, merely tested the waters. I am happily faithful and regularly faithful.

      Delete
  27. https://afu.ac.ae/ar academic-honours

    ReplyDelete
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  30. So John & Emma Causey turned their backs on the ICOC & decided to join the ICC. How appropriate that they immediately be put on staff.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Assuming you know who they are....the problem is _______?

      Delete
  31. I have known a couple of first-degree relatives of Kip McKean for 10 years and he has them suckered, too. The holy-roller types are a very vulnerable population simply because they have blind faith and believe anything cherry-picked and read to them from the Bible. They have no appreciation for, or understanding of, history of the Bible they use (KJV). McKean lives like a king while bleeding his followers dry. Being kicked out of two out of the three megachurches he founded should be a huge red flag.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This post is literally the apex example of why opinions are plentiful and often wrong on the internet.

      Literally nothing in your post is accurate. nothing.

      _______

      Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

      "Seen it all" You clearly haven't seen anything objectively, hence your position. Sad really.

      Delete
    2. Kip is a con, most leave his con and those who stay are brainwashed zombies.

      Delete
    3. Who is worse? Him or the person who can't follow scripture?

      Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

      Delete
  32. The ICC is a cult https://youtu.be/wRJ39rVS-ps

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Literally nothing in that video was true. You misrepresented the beliefs of that church greatly. Not point 1 or 2 was their doctrine. Come on now, if you are going to criticize, at least be accurate.

      Who is worse? Him or the person who can't follow scripture?

      Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

      Delete
    2. Anon 2:27pm ,

      Sir/maam: Let's be making sure to wholly utilize scripture when making judgments eh?

      I have observed the video in question and your position has merit.

      @OP Anon 1:25

      Your video lays the claim that the church unrighteously demands a tithe and commands proselytizing.

      Allow me to place several scriptures on the table.

      First: John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

      Second, Hebrews 7:13-17, For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

      Third, Matthew 28:18-20, And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach (make disciples of in the NIV rendering) all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
      Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

      _____________

      You can see based on these 3 simple, well defined scriptures that your video sir/maam no longer has merit.

      We are commanded to go to all nations to evangalize and spread the good news. We are commanded to do the things (works/deeds/etc) that Jesus does and that INCLUDES the tithe because HE IS the high priest in the order of Melchisedec (as are any disciples of Christ).


      That all noted, don't you want to IMITATE CHRIST our of THANKFULNESS IN YOUR HEART FOR SALVATION? Or

      is Money (Matthew 6:24) your God and master? What about your free time (selfish ambition: Galations 5:19-21)

      I pray you consider removing such an academically irresponsible video.


      XYZ

      Delete
  33. Kip is con and his cult is a "tithing to stay saved" scam, they are wicked in that they manipulate people to recruit more "disciples" again to stay saved, but all the money goes to Kip and keeping his scam going. Most people leave his cult which says it all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

      Delete
    2. See above comment

      XYZ

      Delete
  34. Is it true, Chris Broom & Chris McGrath left Kip's church?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Indeed, and not in a righteous way either. No matter where they worship after this, they both need to be restored to God.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. what do you mean, not in a righteous way?

      Delete
    2. As in, there is a right and wrong way to leave a physical fellowship but stay a part of the vine/true church/the body/universal church/etc. They didn't do this. To give more detail would be non-beneficial.

      Delete
    3. Unless you talk to the person directly, you never really know the full story on why they left. Anything short of that is hearsay. It's been documented numerous times by many "leaders" who left of the corruption & un-godly practices of leadership. Ppl come & go from the followship, but I have never seen ppl & leaders leave the ICC in droves. The machine is broken & no-one seems to want fix it.

      Delete
    4. "Droves" is literally the worse possible choice. All I've seen leave were blips on the radar in the big picture. 20 years from now, no one is going to care who Broom, Preston, Reed, Gonzales, etc are . Each having one sin in common. Regardless, the path is narrow. If 99% leave the (universal) church due to willful pride, disunity, whatever, God will handle it. If someone leaves and remains part of the body (according to Jesus, NOT their deceitful religious heart) then I welcome them.

      I see this sentiment echoed all over this page so I will copy and paste it:

      Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.

      Let's be honest, if the Icc, Icoc, Coc, BAcc, CCC, whatever CC has ANY God in it, there will be fruit and fruit that lasts. Since all churches have some degree of corruption within since it is filled with corrupt humans, I'm not as concerned as some people. I'm just trying to love people.

      ps- If the machine is broken, but beyond repair, the Icoc leaders leaving for the Icc doesn't make sense. I've watched the Icc to Icoc transfers in person and their sin leading up to it, but people like Causey weren't in sin, they simply saw a better ministry and hit the upgrade button.

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    5. Anon Sept 15 9:34am,
      All leaving with one sin in common? If I understand correctly these were all "sins" of questioning Kip's policies & procedures. So you're saying if anyone "brings up" concern about leadership then they are in sin? In that case, I would agree with you they all left with common sin. If you want to be in a church & follow like sheep then the ICC is the place for you. You have to be in a really lowly place in your life to call this an "upgrade". What ICOC leaders left for the ICC, oh yeah one's who were no longer collecting a paycheck.

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    6. @Anonymous :September 20, 2017 at 3:52 PM

      "If I understand correctly these were all "sins" of questioning Kip's policies & procedures."

      No, you misunderstood, therefore your followup statement isn't something I should address. That's obviously not how it is. Ask anyone on the COTC how it operates internally. It's a delegation with a leader, not a monarchy with a tyrant. Even God took suggestions (advice) from men when requests and faith was involved. Kip isn't above that and I've seen it.

      Secondly, I again would like to cite John Causey. If you are or were in the Icoc, you know this man. Unless of course, you yourself were merely a blip on the radar.

      I think the above theme needs to be copy and pasted:

      *Acts 5:38

      Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.*

      This is so true.

      In 11 years, the Icc went from a day dream, to 84 churches in 44 nations with 5,500 members.

      Perhaps instead of bickering/dividing people on hate-blogs, you could be out sharing your faith or unifying people in love?

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  36. I remember that cult in London, there was an adorable lady there called Helena she had a sister called Odelia, the cult was crazy but she was amazing.

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    Replies
    1. You throw that word around casually. That's good. Jesus was a sect (aka cult) leader according to the Bible.

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  37. Nhờ thành phần dưỡng chất và dược chất đa dạng như vậy mà công dụng của nhân sâm hàn quốc tại tphcm cũng vô cùng phong phú giúp con người bồi bổ sức khỏe nhan sam han quoc ngăn ngừa, điều trị nhiều thể bệnh khác nhau.

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