Apr 21, 2015

You Know You're A Member of Kip McKean's Sold Out Movement When

Guest post by anonymous writer via the comments section of a previous post (thank you and please keep the great comments coming!):

10. You're not permitted to wear swim suits, ride alone in a car with the opposite sex, go on solo dates and must look away during kissing scenes on tv/movie "to protect your purity". Yet, there are no shortage of sisters who show up for church in skin tight clothing, wearing hooker heels with hair/make-up all done in a way that would rival any hard working stripper.

9. You're told that you must IMITATE, OBEY and SUBMIT to the authority of your 22 year-old church leader who barely had enough credits to graduate high school, never had a job other than his stint as a bus boy at Frosty Freeze and brags during every sermon that he has a degree from the church's unaccredited school the ICCM. Meanwhile his wife (the women's ministry leader) still reads Teen Vogue and is obsessed with taking selfies.

8. Every Good News E-Mail is inundated with pictures of Kip, Elena and other ICC Leaders traveling the globe (in style) visiting places like London, Paris, Spain, Australia, Hawaii, Chile, etc. While you're struggling to pay the rent/bills, living off of top ramen and can barely afford the gas to shuffle your 6 roommates to and from church events because you are constantly brow beaten to "sacrifice" so as to fund these vacations, ahem, I mean "missionary" trips.

7. ICC leaders convince wives that it is their "COTTON PICKIN' DUTY" to financially support their husbands (and family) so hubbies can devote all of their time and energy to Kip's church slaving away as UNPAID staff members/interns.

6. Elena McKean hasn't served a day in her life in children's ministry because "that isn't her role."

5. ICC leaders require that everyone wear their M.E.R.C.Y. t-shirts (Maximizing Efforts for Relief Care and Youth- the "supposedly" charitable arm of the church) to collect donations. Yet the money raised is not used to help the poor and needy but instead to pay for people's GLC/Jubilee registration and/or to meet the church's Special Mission's goal.

4. Five people are baptized on Sunday, four are struggling by Wednesday and one is barely faithful by Friday yet the evangelist enthusiastically claims that his region had a CRANKIN' week at the staff meeting.

3. The A.M.S. Ministry stands for Arts, Media and Sin.

2. When words like CRANKIN', EPIC and HISTORIC is used to describe E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G that Kip does right down to making himself a bologna sandwich.

1. When Kip's newly appointed WSL(s) can barely locate the books in the New Testament let alone where to find their assigned "world sector" on a map (ain't that right "Joanie B" and "Jee B"?).

Please add to the fun and contribute your own items to this list in the comments below!

104 comments:

  1. ...You're lame enough to claim that you attended Kip's fantasy college, the ICCM, before he even started it! Kip created the ICCM in 2012 yet many evangelists/women's ministry leaders like Chenelle Patterson, Jared McGee and Ron Harding assert they attended the "school" several years prior to its actual inception. According to their Facebook pages, Chenelle claims she attended from 2009-2013, Jared 2007-2013 and Ron 2006-2013. Why the spin? Perhaps to give unsuspecting individuals the "impression" that they graduated from a legitimate four year university which the ICCM is NOT!

    ...You're OK with "spinning the truth" or what the rest of the world considers LYING. Coltin Rohn, the Boston ICC leader, claims he has a Marriage and Family Counseling degree from the ICCM. Really??? According to the City of Angels website the only undergrad degree the ICCM offers is a degree in ministry. Not to mention that many evangelists/women's ministry leaders were awarded degrees without having to take a single course. They just had to shell out $300 for the cost of the cape, gown and certificate and more than likely were reimbursed by their respective churches for the cost. CAN YOU SAY DIPLOMA MILL???

    These are just a few examples (AMONG MANY) of the culture of deceit that is so prevalent in the ICC and among its leadership.

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    1. So true! Thanks for commenting. As an aside, the ICCM seems like just another way for the ICC to take in more money, as well as give the (completely false and misleading) impression that it's leadership is prepared or educated. "Dr. McKean." Such B.S.

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    2. Being able to wear swimsuits is determined by your leader. For instance, the women's ministry leader of the LA AMS ministry, Sonja Chloupek, wears bathing suits albeit when she is away from the church vacationing with family. Whereas the WML in the OC Region, Kelly Bartholomew, feels it's highly inappropriate for ICC members to wear swimsuits in public, under any circumstance, and doesn't permit her disciples to do so. This also applies to "brothers" going shirtless. A big NO, NO for some leaders. Yet, a dude who owns a gym and is a up and coming leader in the LA AMS ministry often works out with no shirt and leaders don't seem to have a problem with it. Maybe because the leaders consider his guy a "valuable member" and don't want to piss him off so he doesn't walk.

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    3. Ahhh...the Bartholomew girls -Kelly and Joan. It's so funny to learn how self righteous these two have become since Kip swooped them up and slapped a label on them, eh-I mean, gave these little ladies a title. Joan and Kyle were hardly the example of a "pure" dating couple back in the day. And well Kelly...let's just say that she didn't move to Hawaii as a campus student to "help the church" the way she often likes to spin the story. There was a dude involved.

      My guess is that the old guards like Chris and Sonja Chloupek will soon be ostracized because of their some what liberal views (eg. what is appropriate christian attire) in favor of the younger, spiritually immature but radicalized evangelists and women's ministry leaders Kip has recently tapped in the last few years including Joan and Kelly.

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    4. A clarification to the above post...I know that in some circles the word "tapped" can be interpreted as a derogatory offense regardless of the context it is written in. To avoid any such confusion, I would like to expound on my above post by specifically stating that use of "tapped" in this context is synonymous with terms such as appointed, promoted, raised-up, etc.

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    5. I'm not a member of the ICC or considering to be one. You guys are incredibly bitter and in sin. You may have been hurt but this open internet slander is terrible. Get a room.

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  2. FYI...In the real world a degree in Marriage and Family Counseling/Therapy requires GRADUATE LEVEL course work (ie. Masters). Coltin would probably know this if he actually pursued such a degree from a legitimate university. These type of claims make ICC leaders look like complete and utter idiots.

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    1. Excellent point! As others have pointed out, T.K., who teaches many of the Master's level courses, does not even have that level of education, and his course materials are riddled with bad grammar and very basic mistakes (hardly sufficient quality for ANY level of education).

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  3. I saw that You Know Your from SODM If tag line on their FB page and thought of doing something like this. You beat me to it. Quite frankly, my wife and I are just now barely recovered from this nightmare cult. We have been out of the loop until something spurred my recent curiosity. I am utterly shocked by Kips inability to see what he is doing or he sees it and just doesn't care. Also not sure what's up with these people that know his history and still... It's truly amazing, so many smart people can be so... Help me out here.

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    1. Nocam033, Kip is not in a position to find fault with his own actions, as they continue to benefit himself richly. Who wouldn't like to be surrounded with thousands of people who basically worship the ground you walk on and are willing to do whatever you tell them to? And live in luxury housing, earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year? As for the other members, Kip is great at convincing people and making their decisions for them. The stick and the carrot work well, from the newly baptized member all the way up through the highest levels of paid leadership. It is all very, very sad.

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  4. lol made me laugh

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  5. -You can't tell the "sisters" from the porn stars at an Arts, Media, Sin (cough) Sports ministry event

    -Terms like "Gibeonite Deception" and "Plundering the Egyptians" are used by ICC leaders/members to justify exagerrating the truth (ie. lying) in favor of the church and/or soliciting donations from non-members for special missions drives

    -It's announced that the 20 year old kid that was baptized last Sunday, put on staff by Wednesday and appointed an evangelist on Friday is your new church leader

    -There are eerie similarities between students in Kip McKean's International College of Christian Ministries (the ICCM) and those from L. Ron Hubbard's (founder of Scientology) Sea Organization

    -You read Henry Kriete's letter for the first time and think, "WTF!!! Kip has done this before?!?"

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    1. Haha thanks for contributing! It's clear that you have definitely seen your share of "The Kingdom"! (TM)

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  6. --You're a struggling single mom and your discipler tells you to get clothes at Goodwill and groceries from the food bank to pay to send others to conferences in European.

    --You have a child with an invisible disability. Your discipler berates you for not attending events, but you don't want to discuss your child's disability and how it keeps you from attending events. And you doubt your explanation would be respected, even if you did discuss it.

    --A personal problem you shared with your discipler turns up in the LE's sermon 2 weeks later

    --When your utilties get shut off, you're told that if you would have given more money consistently God would have honored that by giving you more than enough to pay your bills.

    --When a married brother hits on you by "confessing" that he finds you more attractcive than his wife. In fact, he says he's never been attracted to her because she's quite ugly, but he wanted a spouse in order to have sex and she was matched up with him because they were both "spiritual."

    --When you rebuff Married Brother's advances, he goes to your discipler and lies, saying that you told him an inappropriate joke--and your discipler believes him.

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    1. Ouch .. I can tell from the specificity that some or all of these were exactly what happened to you! (Other ones happened to all of us). Thanks for putting in your two cents! (Was going to say "sharing", but decided that might be a trigger word for some ;p )

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  7. You attend an all congregational church service to find that most of the older, wiser and spiritually mature disciples have either left or been disfellowshipped for questioning and exposing the unbiblical practices/behavior imposed by ICC leadership; leaving only "baby Christians" in their teens and early 20(s) who are often the most vulnerable and susceptible to spiritual abuse.

    Your evangelist tells you that as a "leader in God's modern day movement (the ICC)" you are personally responsible for the souls/salvation of those in your bible talk and part of ensuring their salvation is making sure the members are tithing each week and meeting their special missions goal.

    A young husband and father who has been out of work for months is told he has to quit his new job if he wants to get baptized (ie. saved) because the job requires that every employee work one weekend a month. God forbid this young man misses one Sunday in order to put bread on the table and a roof over his family's head. Yet the Olympic athlete, entertainment host and news broadcaster (just to name a few) are able to miss "meetings of the body" due to their type of work.

    The evangelist's wife gets up to speak and all you can think about is the boob job she got as a disciple.

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    1. Yes, yes, and yes! Also, wouldn't it be fun to post the names of some well-known WMLs who have gotten cosmetic surgery while working for the church?

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    2. Seriously??!!! ^^^ They did?! Wow, things are on a whole other level now :/

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    3. Your contributions at work

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    4. If it's who I think it is, she got the "augmentation" (air quotes) while she was a member (disciple) of the church but not employed by the church.

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    5. I've been reading a lot on this place, my daughter is wrapped up in & we have removed her from any contact with the church. My husband has made it clear he'll go to jail to protect her, this is seriously the scariest thing & for it to happen in my own back yard devastates me.

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    6. I am so sorry that your daughter got caught up in this but salute your firm action to save and protect her. I hope that this will soon all be behind you and your family can move on to happier times, and that your daughter can feel the love that you are showing through your actions to save her.

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  8. You know, reading this made me laugh at first, then incredibly sad. Because majority of these people in this is as you said: Kids. Teenagers who have no idea what they're getting into, yet committed and willing to throw their loving hearts into it because they've been deceived. Such incredibly hearted people twisted into serving such a bad cause...It pisses me off to no end because these kids aren't some toys or expendable things, they're human beings with unlimited potential, yet stumped and emotionally blackmailed into this.

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    1. Thanks for commenting! What you describe is exactly what happened to me. I got sucked in as an 18-year-old college freshman, newly moved away from home. The church ended up taking me for ~$40,000 and 15 years of my life, besides incalculable things like lost wages and intangibles like lost hopes and dreams. And even more sadly, the moment that Kip saw that I would no longer obey his orders, he had me thrown out of the group like an old piece of trash, with threats made against me and my family for extra measure. And yes, every step of the way in this group involves emotional blackmail. I'm so glad to be out!!

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    2. Are you serious? If you gave special missions that means you gave about $20 bucks a week. And you are complaining. Hilarious.

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  9. Evangelist, M--- G------, posts a picture to his Facebook timeline of a lady wearing the infamous green MERCY shirt holding up a sign that says "Help Christian Missions" with a caption above the picture that reads, "[Name with held] who is studying out the scriptures is raising money to register for the 2014 GLC-Lets Go Zion Dreamers." In the comment field someone writes, "Not to be the knucklehead...but how is "tagging" for GLC the same as "tagging" to "help" Christian Mission? Just askin..." M--- snidely replies, "Not to be rude but shut up. If it's not useful don't say it." This is a typical response from ICC leaders when confronted with very valid questions about the church's questionable practices and doctrine.

    FYI...The Global Leadership Conference (GLC) has NOTHING to do with Christian/Special Missions. It is a 3-4 day conference typically held at some posh resort for ICC leaders and those aspiring to be in leadership. Like most of the ICC events it's what's known as a "mandatory optional" event meaning that regardless if you're a leader or want to be one you are EXPECTED TO ATTEND. The conference can cost upwards to $600.00 or more per person with registration, hotel fees, food costs, etc.

    Christian/Special Missions is the ICC's fund raising drive to collect money for church plantings. Members are required to give 20+ times their weekly tithe in April/May and another 15+times in November.

    M.E.R.C.Y is the "benevolent arm" of the ICC meaning that any funds donated/collected for this charity MUST be used to help the poor, sick and suffering NOT to fund attendance to a leadership conference. It has become common practice for ICC leaders to require that members wear their MERCY shirts when tagging (soliciting donations usually on street corners and/or medians) for the numerous church sponsored conferences, workshops, retreats, etc. members are required to pay for and attend.

    Someone in an earlier post mentions the pervasive culture of deceit in the ICC. Well here's just another example of it...

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    1. Back in the "old days" of the International Church of Christ, we found out later that the "benevolence" funds and the "church operations" funds were completely intermingled. And of course, the overwhelming, number one expenditure of "the church" is ALWAYS payments to the evangelist, whose compensations are usually in the hundred-thousand-dollar range or higher. They constantly trot out much nobler reasons for everyone to give money, but their lies are made clear by where the money really goes in the end. Each evangelist receives something like 50 TIMES the ENTIRE AMOUNT that goes to ALL BENEVOLENCE put together. Even meeting place rental fees are pennies on the dollar compared to what gets paid to Kip's employees (lead evangelists). It's a sick and twisted system where the result is that the guy standing up in front of the group is constantly admonishing poor and single mothers (and every other living being from whom they believe they can strangle a nickle) to "give to God," when most of the money goes into their own pocket. Sick and reprehensible, and handed straight down the chain of command from Kip himself.

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    2. >>Evangelist, M--- G------, posts a picture to his Facebook timeline of a lady wearing the infamous green MERCY shirt holding up a sign that says "Help Christian Missions" with a caption above the picture that reads, "[Name with held] who is studying out the scriptures is raising money to register for the 2014 GLC-Lets Go Zion Dreamers." In the comment field someone writes, "Not to be the knucklehead...but how is "tagging" for GLC the same as "tagging" to "help" Christian Mission? Just askin..." M--- snidely replies, "Not to be rude but shut up. If it's not useful don't say it."<<

      Ironically the guy who posted the "not to be a knucklehead" comment is *himself* an ICC evangelist! So here you have two "evangelists" in God's "unified" ICC movement publicly arguing with each other - one calling the other out on deceitfulness and the other telling him to shut up!

      Makes me wonder if maybe he was being sarcastic when he made that post, i.e. as a way of mocking/ridiculing those who raise concerns over how funds are raised/spent.

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    3. To Anonymous April 30, yes, I went back and looked up the post myself and it is clear that both MG's and JB's (both of whom I know) comments are intended to mock critics who would point out the dishonesty of the false pretense that they were using for collecting funds.

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  10. I got in trouble for refusing to accept benevolence funds to pay for attending a singles conference. Benevolence funds are supposed to be helping out the poor or church members in desperate need not paying for someone who is employed and is up to date on her bills to go to a conference 800 miles away.

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    1. Yeah, in my experience, the questionable use of funds was very common practice. "God's money" could be used however the leadership felt appropriate, regardless of the pretense that was given to the specific people who gave the money at any given time.

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    2. The ICC just completed their Special Mission's Drive and guess where they'll be sending Kip and Elena on vacation this month? Beautiful Sydney, Austrailia!!! Nice to see the members' hard work and sacrifice being put to good use. Side Note: Still waiting for a photo of Kip and Elena donning the group's M.E.R.C.Y. t-shirts holding the orange buckets begging for money on a street corner like they require their members' to do.

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  11. 1. You have done alot of things you regret, but the MOST regrettable thing was defending the icoc on national television. https://youtu.be/ntZyuyVSjLE

    Enough said.



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  12. JB is not an evangelist although he is the "right hand man", best friend and selfie partner to Chris Chloupek the AMS evangelist. JB's son-in-law is the Mexico City evangelist and one of the individuals mentioned above who claims to have attended the ICCM before Kip even started it. In true form, ICC evangelists and their cronies, like JB, are NOTORIOUS for mocking and ridiculing those who question ICC politics, practices and beliefs. As a side note, CDK who also commented on MG's thread is the leader of the Hilo Church.

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    1. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, leaders and followers in the ICC are trained to disdain the character, motives, and even intelligence of anyone who might dare differ from the official word handed down by Kip or whatever local leader. Absolute, unquestioning submission to authority is constantly demanded, lest you be labeled "weak," or even worse, "divisive."

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    2. Don't forget "BITTER". Anyone that questions or disagrees with Kip and leadership are in one way, shape or form-BITTER. Just ask Mike Patterson..."bitter" is his go to word when he is challenged and unable to defend the dubious practices of the ICC.

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    3. They also love to use "contemptuous" and "persecution"!

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    4. Yes, you are describing control words, thought-stopping words that Kip McKean and other ICC leaders use in order to manipulate and control other people. It serves their purpose of programming people's minds into a simple cult=good noncult=bad mindset that makes them ripe for the picking. And yes, these techniques sadly worked on me as well for all too many years.

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  13. your dad is told he has to move the family every couple of years for the sake of "spreading the gospel" only to learn that Kip NEVER ONCE uprooted his own family for the gospel's sake. All three of his kids got to grow-up and establish roots in one of LA's most affluent communities, Pacific Palisades, and attend the same expensive private school most of their lives. #sucksbeingakingdomkid

    the evangelist shares that the church had one of the most "HISTORIC Bring Your Neighbor Days EVER with more visitors than there are members..." Except he fails to mention that most of these "visitors" were made up of infants and toddlers in children's ministry. #sucksbeingakingdomkid

    many of the most notoriously abusive ICOC staff leaders who are washed up, jobless with no marketable career skills, in broken marriages with kids who want nothing to do with God OR church flock to the ICC with the hopes of going back in the full time ministry and are actually rehired by Kip to start the cycle of spiritual abuse all over again. #sucksbeingakingdomkid

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    1. Yeah, the habit of bending objective reality so that it sounds more "inspiring" is a habit handed down directly from Kip's leadership. People have been complaining about this lack of integrity on his part for decades. Yes, decades.

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  14. in 5-10 years ICC leaders end up like most of their ICOC counterparts. Below are some hilarious predictions:

    10. The entire Bartholomew clan move back to Hilo where they are literally big fish (have you seen the size of these guys?) in a very, very small pond. The brothers go back to working in their dad's wood shop while their wives run a roadside shave ice stand to make ends meet.

    9. Anthony and Chenelle Patterson get back together after Chenelle reveals that she never stopped loving Anthony and only married his brother, Mike, because "that was the advice..."

    8. Mike doesn't take the break-up too badly as it gives him more time to dedicate to his true passions: UFO(s) and WWE. He hosts a successful podcast called, "Alien Abuductions and Their Impact Before, During, and After the Time of Jesus". As well as creates a new wrestling organization known as WACKY, Wrestlers After Christ the King Yahweh, that attempts to convert and actively recruit wrestlers out of the WWE.

    7. Corey Blackwell is on his 4th...no, his 5th marriage.

    6. Both Michael and Michelle Williamson finally come out of the closet and co-lead a growing and very active out-reach church comprised of LGBT ex-icc members. Michelle preaches and Michael oversees the song service.

    5. Tracey Harding still has Ron by the balls because you can always take the girl out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto outta' the gurrrrl. Ron is on his 22nd version/rewrite of Kip's biography.

    4. Coltin Rohn settles for a job as a back-up cashier at Holly Lobby after several attempts to get a job as a Marriage and Family Therapist only to be told time after time that his ICCM degree is not valid. However his wife, Mandee, is elated with his career choice because of the crankin' employee discount!

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  15. 3. Due to their extensive experience in multi-level marketing as ICC world sector leaders, Andrew and Patrique Smellie oversee a lucrative group of Amway and Herbal Life consultants in parts of South Africa and Barbados.

    2. Scientology is looking for a new leader to replace David Miscavige and found just their man...Tim Kernan!

    1. After three failed attempts at world domination, Kip McKean launches his fourth movement known as I-SSUCC, International Super Sold Out Undefeated Christian Church and reinstates DJ Comisford as an evangelist and world sector leader.

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    1. Yeah, I have been thinking about publishing these as their own, separate post. I guess I have been holding off since I know every single one of these folks and a couple of them have not directly been pr*cks to me personally (unlike Kip McKean, Victor Gonzalez Sr, and others). They still promote the sickness that is the ICC though and the criticisms are both entertaining and valid.

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    2. Your prediction about Mike Patterson may not be that far off. He created a blog called The Cranker (http://thecranker.blogspot.com/). Waiting with bated breath (sarcasm) for his UFO podcast. Is Mike Patterson not the biggest douche bag on the ICC planet?!?

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  16. Omg! This article and all of the comments hurt my heart AND are making me laugh! Lots of pain out there from both ICOC and ICC experiences. But I hope that knowing you're not alone and that people are thriving OUTSIDE of the church, will help heal some of those wounds. And there's this: http://didyouhaveyourquiettime.tumblr.com

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    1. Yeah that is a hilarious site! I'd love to meet the folks responsible. Very on-point with many of their insights. (I do have a link to this on the right column of every page on my blog, although maybe not visible enough). And thanks for the great reminder that thriving life does exist outside the church. There is a reason that most of the people who leave, never look back!

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  17. 9/10 of those statements are true. 1. is the only one that is not true. They know where every scripture is, even though they mistranslate it.

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    1. "They know where every scripture is, even though they mistranslate it."

      Isn't this the case with most of the ICC leaders?!? Taking scriptures out of context and applying their own interpretation to fit the cult's/Kip's agenda?

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  18. AAAALLLLL of the ICC sermons, regardless of who and where it's preached (whether by Joe Willis in Australia, Mike Williamson in London, Raja Rajan in India, Anthony Eckels in Texas,etc.) basically have the three same points:

    1. Multiply or Die-ICC's obsession with numbers
    2. Show Me the Money, Honey-ICC's obsession with $$$
    3. Submit or Your Leader's Gonna Have A Fit-ICC's obsession with control

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    1. 1. Yes!
      2. Yes!!
      3. Yes!!!

      (Except maybe I should be saying no, no no!!)

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  19. the best thing about leaving Kip's church is that God DOESN'T leave you

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    1. Despite what the ICC works so hard to scare its members into believing, life outside "The Church" *does* exist and it can be EXCELLENT. (There is a reason that 95%+ of the people who leave Kip's groups never go back!)

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  20. When you call it an Inaugural Service only after you successfully had a lot a visitors to service, even though the church was there for over 2 years.

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    1. Just one of many, many, many subtle and not-so-subtle ways that the ICC leaders lie to its members and non-members every day of the year.

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  21. When you take copious notes during sermons so you don't get bad looks or rebuked, and after you take them, you never look at them again, ever!

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    1. Haha so true! I had piles of notebooks FILLED with notes, and never looked at a single one of them after taking them! (Or if I did, realized that on paper, it didn't actually make that much sense!)

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  22. Mike Patterson brags that he baptized a UOF baseball player but the picture Mike submits to the May 3rd, 2015 Good News Propaganda E-Mail IS NOT the baseball player that was baptized. Mike chalks this up to an honest mistake explaining when he Googled the guy's name this was the picture that came up. Yep, because apparently all baseball players look alike??? C'mon Mike, you sit across from a guy you're studying the bible with several hours a day over a period of 2-3 weeks and can't remember what he looks like?!? You would think that Mike would have learned his lesson about quoting and posting things that are TRUE and ACCURATE especially since he has made this mistake before. During a sermon, Mike attributed a damning quote that he claims came from Pope Francis only to learn later that the Pope never said such a thing. Mike later came out and gave this pseudo-apology, "The pope never said that quote...Although an honest mistake, I take full responsibility and will make sure to do extra research when using any source in a sermon. Regardless, I believe the quote does capture the attitude of many “Christians” today and stand my sermon’s message from the Scriptures that only “sold-out baptized disciples” have a true relationship with God. (Matthew 28:19-20)" Excerpt from January 26, 2014 Good News E-mail

    Evangelist, Blaise Feumba, is pictured with an awkward look on his face kneeling next to a member of the Haiti ICC who is laying on a cement floor in obvious pain dying of cancer (May 3rd Good News E-Mail) and all you can think is maybe M.E.R.C.Y. should have used some of the funds collected during the numerous U.S. church "tagging" drives to buy this poor lady a bed instead of trying to get as many people paid and registered for a leadership conference held at a Hilton Resort in SoCal.

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    1. ICC leaders are P.A.T.H.E.T.I.C.

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    2. Her comfort wasn't even a concern. I bet they figured out a way to get her baptized into the ICC, though...Shameful.

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    3. I asked Mike P. a question about how money is used in the ICC and he didn't walk, he RAN away from it so fast it made my head spin!

      As for MERCY, it has always been the case in Kip's churches that for every dollar that goes to help a needy person, probably one hundred dollars go to pay the evangelist. I remember a poor lady in Mexico who was giving her tithe every week even though she literally did not have enough money to heat up beans to feed her children, while the jerk evangelist who got up and harangued the group every week for an hour about giving more money to God lived in a gated community with private security, two full-time servants, his kids in private schools, two new cars, etc etc etc to no end. Gilberto Tello was that bastard's name, and you could see the evil written right in his eyes. Yes, Kip is interested in feeding himself and his employees, not anyone with any real need.

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  23. "High Profile" ICOC leaders who have stopped attending church regularly, cheated on their spouses, been divorced multiple times, known to "struggle" w/ porn, pain pills and pot, have children barely out of their teens posting booty pics of themselves on social media, etc. are able to "place membership" in the ICC instead of being "restored". Yet, the rank and file disciple who never misses a church event, serves tirelessly in children's ministry, shuffles people back in forth from bible talk/studies and is relied upon to cover the rent for five roommates who happen to be unpaid interns of the church is brought before the congregation because the church leader "feels" that this member is lukewarm for missing their tithe for the past 3 weeks and not regularly having visitors to church.

    Please note: The description about the "high profile" ICOC leaders is not a description of just one specific leader. It's comprised of many ICOC leaders who flock to the ICC hoping to relive their glory days as ministry leaders who were worshiped and revered by the masses.

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    1. If you look good and shiny, you can be the biggest f----up and derelict in the universe and Kip will invite you in without any challenges, because he knows that he can parade you around and create credibility and cash flow for himself. I remember when I was part of the NY ICOC under Steve Johnson the leaders were talking about a guy who was getting stoned on drugs every day of the year but was getting praised because he was the #1 baptizer in the church for that same year. None of it is related to spirituality at all. It's all a game to bring in money to the cult (check out my previous post on Steve Johnson's $300k+ annual compensation during his time leading that church.)

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    2. Yep! This is EXACTLY what he is doing in the ICC. He is exploiting the young, talented and spiritually naive by "raising them up" quickly, placing them in the full time ministry and appointing them evangelists and women's ministry leaders seemingly over night. Kip is "banking" on the perceived worldly talents of these young converts to lure in new members which in turn equates to more revenue for the church which ultimately means more money for him. Paying no mind, of course, that worldly "talents/gifts" (attractiveness, athleticism, charisma, wealth, etc.) doesn't necessarily translate to being spiritually equipped or gifted. Below are just a few of these "shiny" new young converts (several of whom barely joined the ICC two years ago) that are either leading churches and/or aggressively being groomed to be evangelists and women's ministry leaders in the very near future:

      Nick and Jackie-LA AMS Region
      Chantelle-Houston ICC
      Dennis & Corinna-Santa Barbara
      Princeton George-San Diego
      Bobby and Kensey-OC Region

      One of Kip's motis operandi in the 90(s) was placing people he considered "sharp" on staff no matter how ill-equipped or poorly suited they were for the full time ministry. Looks like nothing has changed.

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    3. Is this when the leaders sits these people down and convince them to give up their worldly dreams and ambition for kipdom dreams, ahem, I mean kingdom dreams, throw them on staff, where they get a big head and collect a paycheck for several years for basically doing nothing but giving some dull sermon week after week. And then when the church collapses these people don't have any marketable skills and the best job they can get is either as a coffee shop barista or selling selling Pre-paid Legal.

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    4. The ICC did this with a Miss USA contestant a couple years ago. They made her a church intern before she could even dry off and helped pay for her move to Los Angeles to "strengthen" the AMS ministry. Kip, as you put it, was "banking" on her pseudo-celebrity status to bring in more recruits. Yet, when she started to disagree with some of the ICC doctrine and practices she was labeled "spiritually weak" and put on notice. Like most that join the ICC, she eventually left the organization hopefully with her faith and dignity in tact.

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    5. Didn't Kip send Princeton and his wife with a band of other ICC disciples to Miami on a mission team? And within little less than 2-3 months they were sent back to LA because the "remnant" couple(s) who Kip was counting on to financially support the Georges were like, "Umm-we don't think so..."

      So with little to no ministry and/or missionary experience other than shadowing the AMS leaders, Kip is going to make 24 yr old Princeton an evangelist?!? WOW!!! Kip must be seriously hurtin' for people.

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    6. I know the pageant who was supported for awhile than told to leave.Once she disagreed with it,she left.They ended up markingher.
      Once I left the church, I was marked.i told them if I am not in the church, I'm not under there rules. Craziness!

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  24. >>Yet, the rank and file disciple who never misses a church event, serves tirelessly in children's ministry, shuffles people back in forth from bible talk/studies and is relied upon to cover the rent for five roommates who happen to be unpaid interns of the church is brought before the congregation because the church leader "feels" that this member is lukewarm for missing their tithe for the past 3 weeks and not regularly having visitors to church.<<

    Wow. Did this actually happen to an R&F member?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Sounds like there may be a bit of artistic license included there, but the absolute double standard that exists in the church for leadership and non-leadership can't be ignored.

      Delete
  25. How often do you see the "higher up" leaders bring visitors to church or Bible Talk? You'll know it when they do, because they will preach about it (on the rare occasions it happens).

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    1. So true! I remember the couple of times that Kip brought someone with him to church with him - the whole church knew about it. I think that half of the time it was someone that was technically invited by someone else, but no matter.

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  26. Your group doesn't have visitors for church or BT, so your BT leader pulls the group together to rebuke everyone in the group......yet he himself didn't have visitors either! When confronted on this by a member, he says, "I know; this rebuke is intended for *all* of us, myself included" (even though he is the one who is berating/accusing the rest of us while we sit there like obedient sheep).

    This actually *did* happen to me, exactly as described.....three times within a 2-year period.

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    1. Reminds me of a conversation I heard between leaders back in the day about how it was appropriate for leaders to challenge members to do things that the leaders themselves were not doing.

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    2. Yep....and always with the line: "I'm rebuking *myself* on this too", or "I'm just passing down the rebukes that were dished out on me at leaders' meeting".......or some other lame line to make it seem like they weren't being a total hypocrite. (And of course *their* leader probably didn't have visitors either - or the leader over him - or the evangelist."

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    3. Yep .. All designed to make people insecure and more dependent on the cult. Sadly, it works, although usually for a limited time, as people end up getting pissed and "bitter" and wise up to all of the BS

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  27. Did you know that the Bible teaches that church services are for believers not non believers? The entire culture of Kip's church is that Sunday services are for visitors. Need I remind you of "Bring Your Neighbor Day"? Where did all these stupid occasions come from anyway? Special Constribution, Bring Your Neighbor Day, Hope Day, KNN monthly episodes. What a bunch of stupid controlling, manipulative approaches to motivating people.

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  28. 11. You were recently disfellowshipped by the ICOC for stealing from the collection basket, and were then immediately put on the count team in the ICC.....and made a Bible Talk leader!

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  29. You know you're a part of Kip's sold-out movement when a new convert mistakes a picture of Warren Jeffs for Kip McKean. The physical similarities are actually pretty uncanny!

    You know you're a part of Kip's sold-out movement when bible talks are rehearsed, scripted and staged right down to where members sit.

    You know you're a part of Kip's sold out movement when the majority of his evangelists and women ministry leaders are barely old enough to drink and have the life/ministry experience equivalent to a 5-year old who can hardly tie his/her own shoes: Let's raise a glass and a prayer to all the ICC congregations that are being led by ill-trained and poorly equipped schmucks.

    You know you're a part of Kip McKean's sold out movement when the organization is SOOO sold out that it has more than a 50% "fall away" rate, "secret sin" is rampant in the different congregations that it's even mentioned in the Good Snooze E-mail, and many of Kip's churches have not experienced net growth for several years.

    You know you're a part of Kip McKean's sold out movement when evangelist and self professed 'CRANKER', Mike Patterson, starts a blog titled (drum roll please)... Yep! You guessed it...The Cranker! I'm sorry but Mike Patterson has to be the CHEESIEST and most self absorbed leader (aside from Kip) in the ICC.

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  30. Enjoying your blog!

    I was part of the City of Angels Church in L.A. and had one leader lead me to believe he left the church and so I opened up to him only to find out he didn't leave the church. It was a set-up to feel me out because I think the leaders knew I was already figuring out something wasn't right about this "church".

    It took two pastors to tell me it was a cult and information they provided to help me see the truth. The leaders of CofA seriously had me feeling like I was going to hell because I was not part of that church.

    I'm so glad to see others speaking out. The saddest part is seeing ordinary people working so hard to please these leaders with many of them struggling financially, letting the church run their life. I don't know how to warn them because they're so blind to it.

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  31. people are leaving the ICC churches in droves and instead of taking a really hard and honest look as to the reasons why, ICC leaders assert that it has nothing to do with the false doctrine and spiritually unhealthy practices they burden members with. Instead they claim that God is responsible, "No one truly falls away [from the one true church-the ICC], God cuts them off the vine. This is so the vine will be even more fruitful!"

    Or how about this manipulative passion cry from another ICC leader, "I'm just super fired up about how God is exposing all types of sin, breaking hard hearts, and refining the faith of the disciples. The fire of God is purging the church and I am loving it! We're going to be MORE PURE, MORE HOLY, and BE MORE USED BY GOD now. Let's go!"

    This is all common ICC rhetoric used to manipulate, scare and guilt those who have or are thinking of leaving the group. The good news is that these abusive tactics are becoming less and less effective as more people are speaking out and sharing their experiences on social media.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "ICC is losing members" = "God is pruning us; that proves we are truly his movement"

      "ICC is growing" = "God is adding to our number; that proves we are truly his movement"

      Delete
    2. Chenelle Patterson one of the authors of the quotes referenced in Anonymous June 6th 1:04pm post has recently commented on this via FB, "Heard this Facebook status is currently the topic of conversation on a persecution website...I'm a little flattered that I got church haters patrolling my page..."

      Does this girl not realize that she has over 2,00 FB "friends" and that when she posts something it shows up on people's news feed? Girrrrl, please stop flattering yourself. NO ONE is "patrolling your page." You are a n.o.b.o.d.y. wanting to be a s.o.m.e.b.o.d.y and the only somebody you can be is in Kip's group. Do us all a favor including yourself. Go back to school and get a real job because in 5 years when the church is nada mas and you're left with no marketable skills and/or experience you're going to wish you had finished school.

      Don't waste your life away for Kip and his agenda.

      Delete
    3. That sounds like a sermon from Matt Sullivan. He tells me that he and his WML wife are bringing God to the Southeast USA, has anyone else had any exposure to them?

      Delete
  32. Hey ed. Take a look at the below website. It's study guides, flash cards and lecture notes from the ICCM.

    https://www.studyblue.com/notes/the-international-college-of-christian-ministry/mckean-professor/1596614/0

    ReplyDelete
  33. This one is more in-depth on what students are actually learning in the ICCM:

    -When did Kip go full time in the ministry?
    -When did Kip start the movement?
    -Who are the ICC "movement" leaders?
    -Number of Mission Teams sent out?
    -How many baptisms, restorations, place memberships did the ICC have in 1st 138 days?


    CRAZY STUFF, MAN! Looks like ICCM students are getting their Bachelor of Arts degree in the life and times of Kip McKean.

    https://www.studyblue.com/notes/california/the-international-college-of-christian-ministry/74132

    ReplyDelete
  34. --You serve an almighty and all-powerful "god" who can do anything.....except for, maybe, coming up with a few dollars for "missions" without his leaders begging everyone for money on their Facebook pages:

    https://www.facebook.com/mike.patterson.9028/posts/535749866717?fref=nf

    https://www.facebook.com/chenelle.patterson?fref=ts

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  35. When your husband, an ICC member, tells you that he unequivocally believes that Kip's church (because it's apparently the "one true church") takes priority over your marriage and family. Members are indoctrinated to put the church FIRST before any relationship or commitment including those with a spouse and children. Here's a glimpse of what this looks like:

    Members cannot plan or attend special occasions (ie. birthday celebrations, anniversary dinners, holiday parties, etc.) that fall on a Wednesday or Friday night because the church has mandatory devotional and bible talk scheduled these nights.

    Couples and/or families cannot get away for the weekend because missing church on Sunday is a big No, No.

    Family vacations have to be planned around all church events (eg. GLC, Jubiliees, Winter Workshops, Campus Retreats, Women's Days, Marriage Retreats, etc.) so this basically leaves you Monday and Tuesday unless of course your husband's D-Time is scheduled on one of these days/nights then you and your kids are out of luck.

    One can just imagine the negative impact this has on the marriage bond and family unit as a whole. It's no wonder that several of the ICC church leaders are on their second and in some cases their third marriage.

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    1. I am so sorry .. That really sucks! Maybe you can take heart in the fact that he probably won't last too long (I never saw husbands last long in Kip's ministries if the wife was not into it.)

      Delete
  36. You and your husband, who have been married 10 years and who have been disciples for 15, are told that you will henceforth be discipled by another couple who have been married 2 years. In addition, the wife has been a disciple for six months; the husband for one year. To top it all off, they are 10 years younger than you and have no children, though you have two.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Sounds to me like god placed them over you to teach you humility which you lacked wholeheartedly. Good job exposing their sin god.

      Delete
  37. Your chronic migraine headaches are treated as a spiritual weakness and you are constantly admonished to "push through", "get tougher" and other such B.S. An intern even tells you that "sickness is sin" but cannot show you where the Bible says that.

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  38. Your ministry leader takes personal credit for the number of marriages that occur in what he calls his "Region of Love", despite the fact that most of the singles spend their Saturday evenings at home. His refrigerator holds a photographic shrine to all of the weddings he has performed. Your picture was once among the collection but, along with several others, had to be taken down when the marriage ended in divorce.

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  39. I'm not an ICC member but I saw a group of females on my university composed of three females and introduced themselves as a "All Womens Bible Study Group". One was an evangelist and  two members who studied here in my university. 

    They preached me about the bible itself and I was amazed at first because they introduced the purpose of the bible. 

    Fast-forward to this.

    Thursday last week, when this female evangelist preached about the discipleship = Christian teaching and I was like. Wow! Then, I met some members of this church and most of them were friendly to me.

    However, when I saw one of the members of the ICC reviewing the reviewer. I peeked through his paper and I saw "ICCM". At first I don't know what it means but when I say "bye-bye" to these group. I quickly research about that acronym and I was surprised that ICC was an another church organization. I read about it and most of I read says that this church was a "cult", and "authoritarian".

    Thank God for being so alert and critical-minded person. I'll never have an interaction with them for now on. Also, thanks to this blog too!

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    1. ^ Although they may have their flaws, their doctrine regarding salvation is spot on. You are very likely unsaved and deceived by your former church to believe you are fine. I encourage you to contact them back. If you read things on the internet, you only get half truths via the opinion of those who couldn't follow the lifestyle of the first century disciples. If you really still feel nervous, check out the more passive and IMO lukewarm Icoc......similar doctrine (less convictions) but with an open heart you CAN be shown proper salvation doctrine. Lastly, you could just watch their videos.....regardless, they aren't a "cult" by any means of the American definition, just an organization of individuals who strictly follow the Bible. There are two sides to every story. I for one see no issue with what they are doing. Their leader Kip is a radically different man. I saw this over time with my own eyes. ****** Acts 5:38 So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”

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