A former leader in Kip McKean's newest cult talks about lies, corruption, hypocrisy, and abuse in the ICC "El Ministerio Latino"
Laura, I can totally relate!It came to a point where when I went to Church I would just cryduring the services because I felt like I was trapped, like I couldn't leaveI thought God please help me because I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE butthey said I can't leave. It was really a shame. If you don't think like the group?your on your own. Oh and the scripture I always got when I thought differentlywas "They will know you are my disciples by the way you love one another"Total and complete manipulation. I'm grateful to God I'm outta there!!!!!!
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it was manipulation, trapping people ... I felt the exact same things. And also very glad to be out! :)
I think you made the right choice by leaving and taking care of your health.
Yes, definitely :)
Yes, yes, yes.
I was part of this group and they really messed with peoples lifes. I was told to fast to get a happier thoughtlife. I was told I was selfish for not evangelizing a week after I had been baptised in a foreign country in a language that was not my first one. I even had first signs of burn out by dropping to the floor because of severe exhaustion. I even was suicidal and wanted to be run over by a bus. I felt guilty for almost everything I did. I did not go to a volleyball tournament because I felt guilty for not attending church. I left a hockey training early because I felt guilty for coming to mid-week late. It was all about guilt guilt and more guilt. I was at a party where I started crying due to excess stress and I was told this is not the right time to cry now - just be out of yourself. Flat out crazy. I know they have changed in many ways but they seriously hurt people in the process. May God have mercy on people who are using ungoldy practices. May they never hear the scary words of "Away from me you evildoers for I never knew you". We also need to forgive those who hurt us and pray to God to help us to forgive. He knows our hurt and our pain but this experience can help us to have compassion on people who are suffering and heavily burdened. God can use everything for His glory even our pain if we hand it over to Him and let Him heal us. He is patient He is kind and longsuffering. Bless you sister. In Christ.
It sounds like you have already made good your escape from the group? Sorry you had to go through all of that. And thanks for commenting :)
I used to be in the Bay Area Christian Church (formerly San Francisco ICOC) and am now a part of the San Francisco ICC for a couple of reasons and my wife and I have grown to become more loving and in love than we ever had with the help we've received from folks at the SFBICC who believed in us, pointed us back to the bible, and they led by example (living out love).____________________My heart goes out to all who have been traumatized from their experiences in any church organization. It saddens me because it seems that those same people are easily swayed or pushed around by others and/or the convictions of other people. My dad used to say to me, “Everyone goes through hardships. How you handle it, is what matters.” He was explaining to me that a child coming from a broken home CAN perform well academically and succeed in a great career. My point is this, how we respond to our circumstances is everything!____________________I have experienced pressure at ICOC and ICC regarding different things. I have stood by my convictions on matters opposing leaders and other members. I was baptized on May 24, 2004 so I've seen some things and to this day, I'm not a fan of anyone pushing me around verbally, mentally, or physically. I'm a champion for faith expressing itself in love (Galatians 5:6). I would like share with you some scriptures I hold to regarding situations you described in the video. Again, please understand that these are my convictions and I hope you find comfort in God:
Thanks for commenting Edward. It seems that you have taken the first step, by recognizing some abuse that occurs systematically in the ministry (leaders pushing others around in a variety of ways.) The next step is to REALLY stand up against it in clear action by leaving, which is quite different than just letting it roll off of your back. By remaining part of the organization you are silently condoning its abuses. I was there myself for many years, trapped by the fears that the church itself planted in me in its arduous efforts to control my mind, actions, finances, and everything else. Reach the point where you aren't willing to take it any more and your life will change for the better.
ROMANS 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, –-One thing that has helped me immensely is not doubting that people will at some point sin and let down.––EPHESIANS 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. –-If people are sinning, bring that mess into the light! And there is an appropriate way to go about this (Matthew 18:15-17).––PSALM 119:1Blessed are the undefiled in the way, Who walk in the law of the Lord! 2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, Who seek Him with the whole heart!–-My happiness/joy is dependent on me living out the scriptures... not from people or a church. Drama happens around me everyday on the news, with family, at school, work, church, and sometimes in my home but my response I can control.––JAMES 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.–-When in doubt about something, I revert to asking God and I've always found comfort in his answers.––PROVERBS 15:22 Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established.PROVERBS 14:15 The simple believes every word, But the prudent considers well his steps.PROVERBS 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.–-I do ask people for advice... BUT I look for answers that point me back to the scripts.––
PSALM 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken, But the Lord upholds the righteous.–-I try to be on the same page as God because I know He sustains those who are.–--ROMANS 14:23 . . . whatever is not from faith is sin.–-I believe in making faith-filled decisions based on the scriptures. Not just blindly following people. We learn this from the Bereans (Acts 17:10-11).––JOHN 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”–-I also believe in moving to wherever I see people living this out... wherever that is. If leadership is not, then people should be moving elsewhere! And of course controlling people is not love.––MATTHEW 4:18 – 28:20–-But to be fair, Jesus also recruited and it was his final command for his followers to do as well. It's not recruiting to a church or to individuals, it's recruiting to God. A world with more people behaving like Jesus and loving (not being religious nuts) is what this world needs.–--Sincere best wishes for healing and faith, EdwardG
Edward, please read my blog post that reveals the true character of Kip McKean, the guy who orders Mike Underhill around. (Mike is a great guy in my estimation, but he takes orders from someone whose true colors have been shown time and time again.) http://www.exicc.org/2012/11/why-im-no-longer-part-of-city-of-angels.html
Yeah and my flatmate kiiled himself having been a member of this church. He threw himself inf front of a train "God is love but must be obeyed" were one of his last words he wrote into his journal. It even made the newsline in Ireland. I found his good bye letter lying on his bed. I can never ever go back to a church to drives people to kill themselves. His head was all messed up about God and grace.http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/inquest-calls-for-change-in-law-34945.html
I'm so sorry - that's absolutely terrible! I also had a friend who killed himself after some time in the ICOC. His mother is absolutely convinced that the "church" had everything to do with his suicide. And there have been many others as well. Another friend checked himself into the psych ward after having a breakdown as a direct result of the ministry. I myself found myself with incredibly unhealthy thoughts that resulted from my involvement in the ICC.
Another brother ended up in a psychiatric ward with now drive left in him at all. Also another sister suffered from severe depression. Another sister left the church crying when the church in Dublin fell apart only to be no longer a Christian. I was asked to relocate my studies and to pray for the silliest of things instead of taking wise decisions. These people ruin other peoples lifes. They are like unskilled heart surgeons who think they know it all but do not possess the necessary skills or knowledge to perform such a delicate operation. They are a high pressure group especially targeting young students at a very vulnerabe age. Pleas please please never ever give up your studies. You can find good churches everywhere in your homecountry. Never let them tell you this is the one true church. It is a BIG FAT LIE to tie people down and destroy their future. Go back to your homecountry (if you meet them abroad) and finish your college serving God in your home country. God will guide you with cords of human kindness. Don´t let them use or abuse you. Read the word for yourself, stand your ground. Please. If someones zeal is not based on knowledge it can be very unwise to stay around. Test everything and hold to the good but le me reiterate never ever drop out college. It is part of honoring your father and mother to finish college and to get a decent job. God did not give you your studies for no reason. A man should be abe to support his family.
Very true! Thanks for the warnings and admonishments. The ICC is abusive to its core, and the sooner people realize it, the more they can be saved from suffering from its abuse. Best wishes for your continued recovery.
If a church requires you to spend more time with them than with your own family then you are in a cult!
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